🚀 go-pugleaf

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> I don't post much here but I lurk continuosly......
> I've been following a rather frugal lifestyle for the past 5 yrs or so
after
> finding myself in a heap of financial troubles
> because of poor decisions and habits..I've cut down  on  a lot of
> expenses..been driving the same car for 6 yrs...
> bag my lunch...don't go out too much etc..
> While still I have not been able to save any money for retirement (I'm 47
> yrs old)..I  now have relatively little debt except for my mortage  and
> because of  the ability to
> retain my cash longer I don't find myself needing to go to the ATM every
day
> or delaying payment of bills or not buying neccesities,etc.
> Yet,almost every day I ask myself why I do this..why do
> I not charge up my credit cards again or resume my bad
> habits and have fun in life;considering that almost everyone I know seems
> not to have a care in the world
> regarding spending money..
> My point of reference is the people I work with,,a group
> of 30+ people;most of whom have been there 5-10 yrs.
> Basically that forms most of my social circle as I tend to be reclusive
and
> somewhat of a loner...
> I've been there the longest(going on 26 yrs);and my salary
> is very good;I'm the  best-paid employee next to the owners and
> managers..and  being an accounting employee I know how much all the others
> make and their
> personal status(married,children,etc).
> It seeems to me that I'm the only one who even tries to practice a frugal
> lifestyle;not based on buying and owning more and more things or  spending
> money on things that
> could be substituted for cheaper stuff .etc.
> I'll state a few examples as to why I feel that I'm the only person I know
> who isn't caught up inthis endless cycle of
> over-consumption...
> Out of the 30+ people who work at my  company,at least
> 15 drive SUV'S...some of them live 30-40 miles from the office one way(one
> commutes 150 miles round trip every workday!)...Most of these SUV'S are
> barely 2-3 years
> old....and some of these are expensive models(BMW,    Etc)
> At least  2/3 of the office workers buy out or eat lunch out
everyday..Most
> come to the office everyday with a cup of Starbucks in their hands while
we
> have great coffee in the lunchroom...Most buy bottled water or fancy
> bottled teas etc while we have a water service and a 50cent soda vending
> machine in the lunchroom....
> Most of the women(and they make up 1/3 of the office
> staff)seem to get their hair and nails and toes done every week...seem to
> get a lot of stuff in the mail from catalogs and online stores...
> I seem to be the only one who lives in an older house in a
> working class section of town...they live in new suburbs or even the next
> county..and from the conversations I hear their houses are huge and
> beautiful(Mc Mansions?)
> I hear conversations of  $1500/month mortgages and
> $300 auto lease payments all the  time...
> One woman in particular filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy  less than a year
> ago..and just last week she showed around pictures of a boat she just
> bought...
> Some employees seem to come to me every week and ask for small cash
> advances($20-$100)sometimes to be
> able to buy lunch for that day(as they tell me)...
> People here tend to patronize a lot of  sports and concert events,which
are
> not cheap...
> Of  course I'm making huge generalities here regarding
> the staff..obviously not everybody is the same or does the same things..so
> what's my point...?
> I don't know...except that I feel somewhat bothered that
> these people make a lot less money than I do and seem to
> be enjoying life more than I do,,,even though I see the signs that some of
> them are in deep financial trouble..Most of them are married and of
> course,maybe
> with the addition of their mates's salary they are able to indulge
> themselves these ways..but still..I feel a bit "lonely"
> in my attempt at simple living and being frugal in the "real" world..The
> only frugal people I know seem to exist here and other websites and
> newsgroups...
> I'm in Miami,Florida;which a few years ago was listed as the poorest big
> city in America...this is a town that probably has the most prominent
> displays of income and
> social class differences anywhere in the country  with all
> our legal and illegal immigrants plus being basically a tourist service
> based economy...standing next to rich
> South Americans and comfortable retirees living in waterfront condominiums
> and driving Lexus and Mercedes'...
> I wonder if that's why the people down here seem to be in an upward spiral
> of status seeking ...
> Any thoughts on this?
>
>     OD
>
First of al OD, I think you mean that you lurk here continually, which means
regularly or frequentl  Continuously means "without a break".

Now, about your post.

What you have to ask yourself is whether or not these people are truly happy
with their lifestyle. Oh, they may claim to be, but I promise you, the only
thing that makes them "happy" is buying more, and more and more and more,
and it is a happiness that is very fleeting.  People who are addicted to
consuming have no idea what true happiness means.  They are pitiful and
pathetic and those of us who have ascribed to the frugal way of life are
superior to them in every way.  Never forget this.

Can you imagine a woman who feels so bad about herself that she must pay $45
dollars to buy a set of fake fingernails in order to make herself feel
better?  Can you imagine anything more pathetic than that?

How stupid is paying $1500 a month for a mortgage? Do you have any idea how
much money they are spending in INTREST that serves only to make the
banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and richer and more powerful?  They
are giving away their power to someone who would throw them out on the
street to die if they miss ONE PAYMENT.

These people deserve our pity and nothing more.  Be proud of your lifestyle
and who you are.

EM

od <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> I don't post much here but I lurk continuosly......
> I've been following a rather frugal lifestyle for the past 5 yrs or so
after
> finding myself in a heap of financial troubles
> because of poor decisions and habits..I've cut down  on  a lot of

<snip>

Sounds like you 'used' to be where many of your co-workers are now.  Maybe
they will have a revelation about their spending habits - and maybe they
won't.  Worry about yourself.  Better yet - don't worry about yourself and
do what makes you feel good.  If that means settling your debts and living
frugally - do so.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

> Any thoughts on this?

Yes. There's no one more fanatical than a reformed sinner.

Life is not a frugality contest. Live your life as you wish
and let others do the same without criticism. Your way is
not necessarily better than theirs.

Don

> Any thoughts on this?

yep- dont worry about em. worry about yourself.

W
"Anthony Matonak" > wrote in message :
> Ok, frugal not by choice but by circumstances. That is, you don't
> particularly want to be frugal but have to because otherwise you
> wouldn't have a roof over your head and someone would be coming
> to break your legs.
-------
Very true;as new immigrants and parents with a 6th grade education while i
was growing up,,though i never missed
the neccesities;i was always lacking the finer things everybody else seemed
to have(new bikes comic books
cool clothes(this was the 1960's) and i coveted them like
 crazy..Maybe thats why i got my first job at 13...
Maybe its that "hunger" for things that u couldnt have when u were younger
that prompts over consumption
With one exception everybody at the office is a first generation immigrant!
>
>>
> > Basically that forms most of my social circle as I tend to be reclusive
and
> > somewhat of a loner...
>
> Get a bigger social circle, include some people who have similar values
> as you. Perhaps there is a frugal group that holds regular meetings
---------
I dont think there are groups like that in Miami..Miami
is a very image concious town (remember Miami Vice?)
South Beach...etc people semingly tend to rate you based on what you are
wearing what you drive etc...
Maybe its a Miami thing...and an immigrant thing living up to what is
perceived as the american dream...

> near you that you can participate in. If not, you could form one. You
> could also consider getting a live in lover or spouse. The saying "Two
-------
You must be joking!  A woman wouldnt stand my lifestyle! My house is "dumpy"
by most standards;
I rarely turn on the air conditioning even in Miami weather
(stand up and ceiling fans only)I've seen $300 monthly
electrical bills from some of my co-workers  mine is about
$40-45 a month.
Its almost impossible for me personally to live cheaper
alone than with a companion..plus I just dont attract company..but thats
another subject...
>
OD

. You
> > could also consider getting a live in lover or spouse. The saying "Two
> -------
> You must be joking!  A woman wouldnt stand my lifestyle! My house is
"dumpy"
> by most standards;
> I rarely turn on the air conditioning even in Miami weather
> (stand up and ceiling fans only)I've seen $300 monthly
> electrical bills from some of my co-workers  mine is about
> $40-45 a month.
> Its almost impossible for me personally to live cheaper
> alone than with a companion..plus I just dont attract company..but thats
> another subject...
> -------
OOPS!
I meant it would be impossible to live cheaper with a companion than how i
live alone....
>
>

if you can afford to spend $1500 on a mortgage each month, surely thats an
investment which will make you more money, rather than a waste of money and
something that will "make the banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and
richer and more powerful?"

its all very well being frugal, as long as you make use of the money saved
by being frugal on things which make you happy or bring enjoyment of some
form

w3rd

"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message
news:BAxic.11198$8Q2.5507@fe38.usenetserver.com...
> "od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > I don't post much here but I lurk continuosly......
> > I've been following a rather frugal lifestyle for the past 5 yrs or so
> after
> > finding myself in a heap of financial troubles
> > because of poor decisions and habits..I've cut down  on  a lot of
> > expenses..been driving the same car for 6 yrs...
> > bag my lunch...don't go out too much etc..
> > While still I have not been able to save any money for retirement (I'm
47
> > yrs old)..I  now have relatively little debt except for my mortage  and
> > because of  the ability to
> > retain my cash longer I don't find myself needing to go to the ATM every
> day
> > or delaying payment of bills or not buying neccesities,etc.
> > Yet,almost every day I ask myself why I do this..why do
> > I not charge up my credit cards again or resume my bad
> > habits and have fun in life;considering that almost everyone I know
seems
> > not to have a care in the world
> > regarding spending money..
> > My point of reference is the people I work with,,a group
> > of 30+ people;most of whom have been there 5-10 yrs.
> > Basically that forms most of my social circle as I tend to be reclusive
> and
> > somewhat of a loner...
> > I've been there the longest(going on 26 yrs);and my salary
> > is very good;I'm the  best-paid employee next to the owners and
> > managers..and  being an accounting employee I know how much all the
others
> > make and their
> > personal status(married,children,etc).
> > It seeems to me that I'm the only one who even tries to practice a
frugal
> > lifestyle;not based on buying and owning more and more things or
spending
> > money on things that
> > could be substituted for cheaper stuff .etc.
> > I'll state a few examples as to why I feel that I'm the only person I
know
> > who isn't caught up inthis endless cycle of
> > over-consumption...
> > Out of the 30+ people who work at my  company,at least
> > 15 drive SUV'S...some of them live 30-40 miles from the office one
way(one
> > commutes 150 miles round trip every workday!)...Most of these SUV'S are
> > barely 2-3 years
> > old....and some of these are expensive models(BMW,    Etc)
> > At least  2/3 of the office workers buy out or eat lunch out
> everyday..Most
> > come to the office everyday with a cup of Starbucks in their hands while
> we
> > have great coffee in the lunchroom...Most buy bottled water or fancy
> > bottled teas etc while we have a water service and a 50cent soda vending
> > machine in the lunchroom....
> > Most of the women(and they make up 1/3 of the office
> > staff)seem to get their hair and nails and toes done every week...seem
to
> > get a lot of stuff in the mail from catalogs and online stores...
> > I seem to be the only one who lives in an older house in a
> > working class section of town...they live in new suburbs or even the
next
> > county..and from the conversations I hear their houses are huge and
> > beautiful(Mc Mansions?)
> > I hear conversations of  $1500/month mortgages and
> > $300 auto lease payments all the  time...
> > One woman in particular filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy  less than a year
> > ago..and just last week she showed around pictures of a boat she just
> > bought...
> > Some employees seem to come to me every week and ask for small cash
> > advances($20-$100)sometimes to be
> > able to buy lunch for that day(as they tell me)...
> > People here tend to patronize a lot of  sports and concert events,which
> are
> > not cheap...
> > Of  course I'm making huge generalities here regarding
> > the staff..obviously not everybody is the same or does the same
things..so
> > what's my point...?
> > I don't know...except that I feel somewhat bothered that
> > these people make a lot less money than I do and seem to
> > be enjoying life more than I do,,,even though I see the signs that some
of
> > them are in deep financial trouble..Most of them are married and of
> > course,maybe
> > with the addition of their mates's salary they are able to indulge
> > themselves these ways..but still..I feel a bit "lonely"
> > in my attempt at simple living and being frugal in the "real" world..The
> > only frugal people I know seem to exist here and other websites and
> > newsgroups...
> > I'm in Miami,Florida;which a few years ago was listed as the poorest big
> > city in America...this is a town that probably has the most prominent
> > displays of income and
> > social class differences anywhere in the country  with all
> > our legal and illegal immigrants plus being basically a tourist service
> > based economy...standing next to rich
> > South Americans and comfortable retirees living in waterfront
condominiums
> > and driving Lexus and Mercedes'...
> > I wonder if that's why the people down here seem to be in an upward
spiral
> > of status seeking ...
> > Any thoughts on this?
> >
> >     OD
> >
> First of al OD, I think you mean that you lurk here continually, which
means
> regularly or frequentl  Continuously means "without a break".
>
> Now, about your post.
>
> What you have to ask yourself is whether or not these people are truly
happy
> with their lifestyle. Oh, they may claim to be, but I promise you, the
only
> thing that makes them "happy" is buying more, and more and more and more,
> and it is a happiness that is very fleeting.  People who are addicted to
> consuming have no idea what true happiness means.  They are pitiful and
> pathetic and those of us who have ascribed to the frugal way of life are
> superior to them in every way.  Never forget this.
>
> Can you imagine a woman who feels so bad about herself that she must pay
$45
> dollars to buy a set of fake fingernails in order to make herself feel
> better?  Can you imagine anything more pathetic than that?
>
> How stupid is paying $1500 a month for a mortgage? Do you have any idea
how
> much money they are spending in INTREST that serves only to make the
> banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and richer and more powerful?  They
> are giving away their power to someone who would throw them out on the
> street to die if they miss ONE PAYMENT.
>
> These people deserve our pity and nothing more.  Be proud of your
lifestyle
> and who you are.
>
> EM
>
>
>

"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message news:<BAxic.11198$8Q2.5507@fe38.usenetserver.com>...
> "od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > I don't post much here but I lurk continuosly......
> > I've been following a rather frugal lifestyle for the past 5 yrs or so
<snip>


>
> Can you imagine a woman who feels so bad about herself that she must pay $45
> dollars to buy a set of fake fingernails in order to make herself feel
> better?  Can you imagine anything more pathetic than that?

Sounds like you're jealous as well as ignorant of what it costs and how
often it's done. The only thing more pathetic is your comments.

"Rod Speed" <> wrote > ">> got >...
> >
> > > near you that you can spouse. The saying "Two
> > -------
> > You must be joking!  A woman wouldnt stand my lifestyle!
>
> Some choose to live that way too.
--------------------------------------
    Reply to above: Dammit Mr. Speed.!...Just.Where the heck are they???  At
least not in Miami...I just don't think so...
------------------------
> > My house is "dumpy" by most standards;
> > I rarely turn on the air conditioning even in Miami weather.

>
>

"Rod Speed" <> wrote in message


> > I meant it would be impossible to live cheaper with a companion than how
i
> > live alone....
>
> That's never true with what comes out of your salary for
> the basic costs like electricity and property taxes etc
> except when the living accommodation is so minimal that
> it isnt possible for another person to fit in there with you.
>-------------------------
Reply to above:
You would have to have people with similar attitudes
towards being frugal  and who are compatible in other
ways to make an arrangemnet like that work..
one person may like to have the Air conditioner on 24/7
in Miami or take long hot water extended showers ..
Or one may leave the toothpaste cap off the tube and drive the other
batty...
It's extremely hard if not impossible to  find persons  willing or able to
agree on living with somewhat  non
stellar living  conditions like I do to save some money..
>

"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message
news:BAxic.11198$8Q2.5507@fe38.usenetserver.com...
>
> What you have to ask yourself is whether or not these people are truly
happy
> with their lifestyle.

Maybe you can tell us what distinguishes the "truly happy" from the merely
happy.

> Oh, they may claim to be, but I promise you, the only
> thing that makes them "happy" is buying more, and more and more and more,
> and it is a happiness that is very fleeting.  People who are addicted to
> consuming have no idea what true happiness means.  They are pitiful and
> pathetic and those of us who have ascribed to the frugal way of life are
> superior to them in every way.  Never forget this.

Sounds like a cult.

> Can you imagine a woman who feels so bad about herself that she must pay
$45
> dollars to buy a set of fake fingernails in order to make herself feel
> better?  Can you imagine anything more pathetic than that?

Someone so insecure that s/he has to look down on someone else.

> How stupid is paying $1500 a month for a mortgage? Do you have any idea
how
> much money they are spending in INTREST that serves only to make the
> banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and richer and more powerful?  They
> are giving away their power to someone who would throw them out on the
> street to die if they miss ONE PAYMENT.

A $1,500/month mortgage is pretty stupid if you're making minimum wage.
It's no big deal if you pull down $100,000/year.  There is no objective,
intrinsic measure of "stupidity".  What's stupid and what's smart is purely
situational.

Part of what should be taken into consideration is what alternatives are
available - given the options of paying $1,500/month on a mortgage and
$1,000/month on rent, it's pretty stupid to be paying for rent.

>From: "od"

>I feel somewhat bothered that
>these people make a lot less money than I do and seem to
>be enjoying life more than I do,,,

There's an old saying:

Never compare your insides by someone else's outsides.

Congratulations on whittling down your debts.
Now start saving towards retirement.

Purrrz,

Sue

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:13:00 +1000
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
>...but thats not that common, even with scrouges.

I've seen this more than once in your posts: "scrouges"  Is this another
of your attempts to simplify spelling of English words?  What do you
intend it to mean?  Scrooges? Scrounges? What?


--
"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of
thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible,
because there will be no words in which to express it."
    -- George Orwell as Syme in "1984"

> Before we bought our house with a $1500 per month mortgage payment, we
lived
> in an apartment that was less than 1/2 the size of this house.  It cost us
> $1000 per month, and at the end of the year we had no equity.  At least
with
> the house, we aren't throwing ALL of the monthly money into a black hole,
> we'll have at least something to show for it eventually.  It makes more
> sense to me.

Notwithstanding any money that you put DOWN on the house, the equity you are
building from your monthly payment is very minute.

Saying that you have a 150,000 mortgage at 6.125 percent for 30 years, your
equity is less than $200 per month for more than five years.  In fact, it
doesn't break $200 until payment #64.  YOu can see this for yourself at
www.amo-mortgage.com/amortization.html. It makes infinitely more sense to
buy a less expensive house where you are able to finance for a shorter
period of time, thus increasing your equity significantly.

Em

od wrote:
> I don't post much here but I lurk continuosly......
> I've been following a rather frugal lifestyle for the past 5 yrs or so after
> finding myself in a heap of financial troubles

Ok, frugal not by choice but by circumstances. That is, you don't
particularly want to be frugal but have to because otherwise you
wouldn't have a roof over your head and someone would be coming
to break your legs.

> Yet,almost every day I ask myself why I do this..

Obviously, because you got in a heap of financial troubles and don't
want to be there again.

> Basically that forms most of my social circle as I tend to be reclusive and
> somewhat of a loner...

Get a bigger social circle, include some people who have similar values
as you. Perhaps there is a frugal group that holds regular meetings
near you that you can participate in. If not, you could form one. You
could also consider getting a live in lover or spouse. The saying "Two
can live as cheaply as one" isn't entirely true but it makes life more
interesting.

Anthony

"Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in message
news:PeKdnbcmxYD-JhfdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> "od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> > Any thoughts on this?
>
> Yes. There's no one more fanatical than a reformed sinner.
>
> Life is not a frugality contest. Live your life as you wish
> and let others do the same without criticism. Your way is
> not necessarily better than theirs.
>
> Don
>

Yeah, apathy is ALWAYS the best approach. What are you doing in this
newsgroup anyway with an attitude like that?

Em

"w3rd" <w3rd@--gmx---.net> wrote in message
news:aP2dnXjQlZPpNhfdRVn-gw@nildram.net...
> if you can afford to spend $1500 on a mortgage each month, surely thats an
> investment which will make you more money, rather than a waste of money
and
> something that will "make the banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and
> richer and more powerful?"
>

Sure, banks do it just to be nice, right?  I don't suppose you have ever
seen an amortization?  Let's see on a $1500 payment the BANK is making over
$700 for each payment you make.

Lord, their good people.

Em

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>> I hear conversations of  $1500/month mortgages and
> $300 auto lease payments all the  time...

Just because someone has a $1500/month mortgage, doesn't mean he is spending
a lot on the mortgage or living above his/her means or is
extravagant/non-frugal.  It doesn't take much to get to a $1500 mortgage.
We used to have a $150K loan that with PITI was about that much each month.
And our house is certainly not a McMansion of any sort (under 2000SF 50 year
old ranch on 1/2 acre).

You seem to forget that frugality does not equal miserliness.  Frugality is
simply about saving money on some things so that you have extra for the
things that are more important to you.  For some people, they'd rather live
in a small house, drive an old beater of a car to save enough money to spend
a lot on a twice a year cruise.  Other people would give up all vacations in
exchange for a bigger house and better car.  Some of us would never dream of
going and having a manicure, while it is the most relaxing/feel good thing
in the world for others.  To each his own.

Thats not to say that there aren't an awful lot of people out there spending
a lot of money foolishly, but as long as they are not overextended
debt-wise, so what?  DH and I spend a lot of money buying DVDs/video games,
but it makes us happy and we don't buy so many that we can't pay our bills,
so who cares?  At the same time, we bought a house that many people keep
telling us is 'below' what we should have bought, we don't buy fancy clothes
and we do some seemingly silly things to save a few pennies here and there.
Oh, and we buy lots of bottled water and drink lots of take out coffee <G>

If your version is not making you 'happy' and you don't feel like you are
enjoying your lifestyle, then you need to think about making some changes,
maybe you need to allow yourself a few more treats here and there?  And
don't stress about your co-workers apparent extravagances, they'll
eventually get their due if they really are living beyond their means.

"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message
news:BAxic.11198$8Q2.5507@fe38.usenetserver.com...

> How stupid is paying $1500 a month for a mortgage? Do you have any idea
how
> much money they are spending in INTREST that serves only to make the
> banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and richer and more powerful?  They
> are giving away their power to someone who would throw them out on the
> street to die if they miss ONE PAYMENT.

On the other hand, a landlord is also in power to throw the tenant out if
they miss a payment.

Before we bought our house with a $1500 per month mortgage payment, we lived
in an apartment that was less than 1/2 the size of this house.  It cost us
$1000 per month, and at the end of the year we had no equity.  At least with
the house, we aren't throwing ALL of the monthly money into a black hole,
we'll have at least something to show for it eventually.  It makes more
sense to me.

"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message
news:BAxic.11198$8Q2.5507@fe38.usenetserver.com...

> How stupid is paying $1500 a month for a mortgage? Do you have any idea
how
> much money they are spending in INTREST that serves only to make the
> banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and richer and more powerful?

A $1500/month mortgage payment is not necessarily stupid if you are paying a
lot more than the absolute minimum every month.

Don't know how it works in the U.S., but in Canada you can amortize a
mortgage over whatever period of time you wish. If you want to pay it off
real fast, you amortize it over 10 or 15 years instead of 20-25.

The last time we had to renew a mortgage we upped the payment substantially.
Saved us thousands in interest, and now we have no mortgage at all.

Jo Anne

> A $1,500/month mortgage is pretty stupid if you're making minimum wage.

i dont think the bank would bother preapproving anyone for a loan like that.
they can pretty much tell, once they see your pay stubs and run a credit
check how much they will lend you

seems like some of your frugal habits are socially isolating you for good
and making you VERY miserable....-- and that  really has nothing to do with
frugality itself... you need to de-isolate....you need to break out of the
mold and take baby steps to some changes--- and spend a little to enjoy some
stuff....
make attempts to kindle friendships with persons who peruse places you have
an interest in say a bookstore for example...a thrift shop...etc....
Start slow....converse with your fellow workers-- maybe YOU can rub off on
THEM
teach em a few things....so what they do their nails etc...it is the
"masses" way-- you do not have to be one-- but you can still engage in
friendly  conversations
and teach em a few things....
Peggy


"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> I don't post much here but I lurk continuosly......
> I've been following a rather frugal lifestyle for the past 5 yrs or so
after
> finding myself in a heap of financial troubles
> because of poor decisions and habits..I've cut down  on  a lot of
> expenses..been driving the same car for 6 yrs...
> bag my lunch...don't go out too much etc..
> While still I have not been able to save any money for retirement (I'm 47
> yrs old)..I  now have relatively little debt except for my mortage  and
> because of  the ability to
> retain my cash longer I don't find myself needing to go to the ATM every
day
> or delaying payment of bills or not buying neccesities,etc.
> Yet,almost every day I ask myself why I do this..why do
> I not charge up my credit cards again or resume my bad
> habits and have fun in life;considering that almost everyone I know seems
> not to have a care in the world
> regarding spending money..
> My point of reference is the people I work with,,a group
> of 30+ people;most of whom have been there 5-10 yrs.
> Basically that forms most of my social circle as I tend to be reclusive
and
> somewhat of a loner...
> I've been there the longest(going on 26 yrs);and my salary
> is very good;I'm the  best-paid employee next to the owners and
> managers..and  being an accounting employee I know how much all the others
> make and their
> personal status(married,children,etc).
> It seeems to me that I'm the only one who even tries to practice a frugal
> lifestyle;not based on buying and owning more and more things or  spending
> money on things that
> could be substituted for cheaper stuff .etc.
> I'll state a few examples as to why I feel that I'm the only person I know
> who isn't caught up inthis endless cycle of
> over-consumption...
> Out of the 30+ people who work at my  company,at least
> 15 drive SUV'S...some of them live 30-40 miles from the office one way(one
> commutes 150 miles round trip every workday!)...Most of these SUV'S are
> barely 2-3 years
> old....and some of these are expensive models(BMW,    Etc)
> At least  2/3 of the office workers buy out or eat lunch out
everyday..Most
> come to the office everyday with a cup of Starbucks in their hands while
we
> have great coffee in the lunchroom...Most buy bottled water or fancy
> bottled teas etc while we have a water service and a 50cent soda vending
> machine in the lunchroom....
> Most of the women(and they make up 1/3 of the office
> staff)seem to get their hair and nails and toes done every week...seem to
> get a lot of stuff in the mail from catalogs and online stores...
> I seem to be the only one who lives in an older house in a
> working class section of town...they live in new suburbs or even the next
> county..and from the conversations I hear their houses are huge and
> beautiful(Mc Mansions?)
> I hear conversations of  $1500/month mortgages and
> $300 auto lease payments all the  time...
> One woman in particular filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy  less than a year
> ago..and just last week she showed around pictures of a boat she just
> bought...
> Some employees seem to come to me every week and ask for small cash
> advances($20-$100)sometimes to be
> able to buy lunch for that day(as they tell me)...
> People here tend to patronize a lot of  sports and concert events,which
are
> not cheap...
> Of  course I'm making huge generalities here regarding
> the staff..obviously not everybody is the same or does the same things..so
> what's my point...?
> I don't know...except that I feel somewhat bothered that
> these people make a lot less money than I do and seem to
> be enjoying life more than I do,,,even though I see the signs that some of
> them are in deep financial trouble..Most of them are married and of
> course,maybe
> with the addition of their mates's salary they are able to indulge
> themselves these ways..but still..I feel a bit "lonely"
> in my attempt at simple living and being frugal in the "real" world..The
> only frugal people I know seem to exist here and other websites and
> newsgroups...
> I'm in Miami,Florida;which a few years ago was listed as the poorest big
> city in America...this is a town that probably has the most prominent
> displays of income and
> social class differences anywhere in the country  with all
> our legal and illegal immigrants plus being basically a tourist service
> based economy...standing next to rich
> South Americans and comfortable retirees living in waterfront condominiums
> and driving Lexus and Mercedes'...
> I wonder if that's why the people down here seem to be in an upward spiral
> of status seeking ...
> Any thoughts on this?
>
>     OD
>
>

"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message
news:onEic.11309$8Q2.2096@fe38.usenetserver.com...

> Notwithstanding any money that you put DOWN on the house, the equity you
are
> building from your monthly payment is very minute.

But its more than the equity you'd build if you were renting.

>
> Saying that you have a 150,000 mortgage at 6.125 percent for 30 years,
your
> equity is less than $200 per month for more than five years.  In fact, it
> doesn't break $200 until payment #64.

That's why it is widely recommended to pay a bit extra every month.  A small
additional principal payment (even as little as $20) each month saves a HUGE
amount over the 30 years.
Taking a 15 year loan instead of 30 gets you both a lower interest rate and
a shorter term and saves 10s of thousands.

If you are renting, you never gain $200 per month in equity, even if you
live there all of your life.

Reply to below:
Mmmm...Seems I  gave the impression with my original posting that I was
looking for personal advice on how to
save more money;improve my personality or lifestyle..etc.
I wasn't...I was just commenting that I do feel "alone out there" with my
frugal habits after seeing what goes on around me within my admitedly narrow
social circle
of my office...and later I suggested if anybody thought
this was a Miami "thing" and /or an "immigrant's perception of the american
dream thing"...
On a personal level I feel I have acomplished enough up
to what I am comfortable with..and that does not include taking a "live in
lover" or seking counseling for agoraphobia as somebody else suggested. .I
do enjoy myself,,I do get out of the house  and  at least for today I am not
miserable or feel isolated because I follow a somewhat frugal lifestyle when
compared to those around me...
But I appreciate your input anyway..
OD
But

"sweetchild" <pjazarsweety@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:408b3814$0$28907$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> seems like some of your frugal habits are socially isolating you for good
> and making you VERY miserable....-- and that  really has nothing to do
with
> frugality itself... you need to de-isolate....you need to break out of the
> mold and take baby steps to some changes--- and spend a little to enjoy
some
> stuff....
> make attempts to kindle friendships with persons who peruse places you
have
> an interest in say a bookstore for example...a thrift shop...etc....
> Start slow....converse with your fellow workers-- maybe YOU can rub off on
> THEM
> teach em a few things....so what they do their nails etc...it is the
> "masses" way-- you do not have to be one-- but you can still engage in
> friendly  conversations
> and teach em a few things....
> Peggy
>
>
> "od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > I don't post much here but I lurk continuosly......
> > I've been following a rather frugal lifestyle for the past 5 yrs or so
> after
> > finding myself in a heap of financial troubles
> > because of poor decisions and habits..I've cut down  on  a lot of
> > expenses..been driving the same car for 6 yrs...
> > bag my lunch...don't go out too much etc..
> > While still I have not been able to save any money for retirement (I'm
47
> > yrs old)..I  now have relatively little debt except for my mortage  and
> > because of  the ability to
> > retain my cash longer I don't find myself needing to go to the ATM every
> day
> > or delaying payment of bills or not buying neccesities,etc.
> > Yet,almost every day I ask myself why I do this..why do
> > I not charge up my credit cards again or resume my bad
> > habits and have fun in life;considering that almost everyone I know
seems
> > not to have a care in the world
> > regarding spending money..
> > My point of reference is the people I work with,,a group
> > of 30+ people;most of whom have been there 5-10 yrs.
> > Basically that forms most of my social circle as I tend to be reclusive
> and
> > somewhat of a loner...
> > I've been there the longest(going on 26 yrs);and my salary
> > is very good;I'm the  best-paid employee next to the owners and
> > managers..and  being an accounting employee I know how much all the
others
> > make and their
> > personal status(married,children,etc).
> > It seeems to me that I'm the only one who even tries to practice a
frugal
> > lifestyle;not based on buying and owning more and more things or
spending
> > money on things that
> > could be substituted for cheaper stuff .etc.
> > I'll state a few examples as to why I feel that I'm the only person I
know
> > who isn't caught up inthis endless cycle of
> > over-consumption...
> > Out of the 30+ people who work at my  company,at least
> > 15 drive SUV'S...some of them live 30-40 miles from the office one
way(one
> > commutes 150 miles round trip every workday!)...Most of these SUV'S are
> > barely 2-3 years
> > old....and some of these are expensive models(BMW,    Etc)
> > At least  2/3 of the office workers buy out or eat lunch out
> everyday..Most
> > come to the office everyday with a cup of Starbucks in their hands while
> we
> > have great coffee in the lunchroom...Most buy bottled water or fancy
> > bottled teas etc while we have a water service and a 50cent soda vending
> > machine in the lunchroom....
> > Most of the women(and they make up 1/3 of the office
> > staff)seem to get their hair and nails and toes done every week...seem
to
> > get a lot of stuff in the mail from catalogs and online stores...
> > I seem to be the only one who lives in an older house in a
> > working class section of town...they live in new suburbs or even the
next
> > county..and from the conversations I hear their houses are huge and
> > beautiful(Mc Mansions?)
> > I hear conversations of  $1500/month mortgages and
> > $300 auto lease payments all the  time...
> > One woman in particular filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy  less than a year
> > ago..and just last week she showed around pictures of a boat she just
> > bought...
> > Some employees seem to come to me every week and ask for small cash
> > advances($20-$100)sometimes to be
> > able to buy lunch for that day(as they tell me)...
> > People here tend to patronize a lot of  sports and concert events,which
> are
> > not cheap...
> > Of  course I'm making huge generalities here regarding
> > the staff..obviously not everybody is the same or does the same
things..so
> > what's my point...?
> > I don't know...except that I feel somewhat bothered that
> > these people make a lot less money than I do and seem to
> > be enjoying life more than I do,,,even though I see the signs that some
of
> > them are in deep financial trouble..Most of them are married and of
> > course,maybe
> > with the addition of their mates's salary they are able to indulge
> > themselves these ways..but still..I feel a bit "lonely"
> > in my attempt at simple living and being frugal in the "real" world..The
> > only frugal people I know seem to exist here and other websites and
> > newsgroups...
> > I'm in Miami,Florida;which a few years ago was listed as the poorest big
> > city in America...this is a town that probably has the most prominent
> > displays of income and
> > social class differences anywhere in the country  with all
> > our legal and illegal immigrants plus being basically a tourist service
> > based economy...standing next to rich
> > South Americans and comfortable retirees living in waterfront
condominiums
> > and driving Lexus and Mercedes'...
> > I wonder if that's why the people down here seem to be in an upward
spiral
> > of status seeking ...
> > Any thoughts on this?
> >
> >     OD
> >
> >
>
>

od wrote:
> Yet,almost every day I ask myself why I do this..why do
> I not charge up my credit cards again or resume my bad
> habits and have fun in life;considering that almost everyone I know seems
> not to have a care in the world
> regarding spending money..

> It seeems to me that I'm the only one who even tries to practice a frugal
> lifestyle;not based on buying and owning more and more things or  spending
> money on things that
> could be substituted for cheaper stuff .etc.

> Out of the 30+ people who work at my  company,at least
> 15 drive SUV'S...some of them live 30-40 miles from the office one way(one
> commutes 150 miles round trip every workday!)...Most of these SUV'S are
> barely 2-3 years
> old....and some of these are expensive models(BMW,    Etc)
> At least  2/3 of the office workers buy out or eat lunch out everyday..Most
> come to the office everyday with a cup of Starbucks in their hands while we
> have great coffee in the lunchroom...Most buy bottled water or fancy
> bottled teas etc while we have a water service and a 50cent soda vending
> machine in the lunchroom....

A large number of Americans maximize their consumption by spending every
cent they make and using credit as much as possible.  These people will
always have the latest cars, houses, and gadgets, but they will never
have any financial security; they will always be vulnerable to losing
everything if they have a single setback (unemployment, disability, etc).

There is nothing inherently wrong with living a spendthrift life.  They
are just taking a gamble that they won't have any setbacks and that
somehow retirement will take care of itself.  As long as they are
willing to take the consequences without whining, more power to them.

You may not consume as much as they do, but long term, you will tend to
end up with better financial security.  You are less likely to lose your
home to a foreclosure; you are less likely to go bankrupt; you are less
likely to be eating catfood in retirement.

A frugal friend of mine is a nurse, and she and her co-workers make good
money.  She has worked in the same place for probably 15 years.  Many of
her co-workers are spendthrifts. Over the years they would tease her for
driving an old economy car when she could be leasing BMWs and Mercedes
like they were.  They were buying big houses while she was living in a 2
bedroom apartment.  These days she works only about 2/3rds of the year,
and spends the rest of her time traveling all over the world.  Her
spendthrift co-workers are now jealous; they don't understand how she
can afford to only work part time, and how she can afford to travel the
world.

Its all just a trade off between different options.

Andy

> Notwithstanding any money that you put DOWN on the house, the equity you
are
> building from your monthly payment is very minute.

if theres no appreciation, sure.

> Sure, banks do it just to be nice, right?  I don't suppose you have ever
> seen an amortization?  Let's see on a $1500 payment the BANK is making
over
> $700 for each payment you make.

for how long? not the whole 30.
>
> Lord, their good people.

no- they suck, theyre evil, etc... but whats the alternative? renting? no
thanks! waiting for rich relatives to die? ha! saving for a house in a
rising market? good friggin luck with that.

theyre putting out the whole cost of the house upfront to the seller, and
theyre waiting years to make it all back.

od wrote:
> "Anthony Matonak" > wrote in message :
>>Get a bigger social circle, include some people who have similar values
>>as you. Perhaps there is a frugal group that holds regular meetings
> ---------
> I dont think there are groups like that in Miami..Miami
...

I don't live in Miami but I would be very surprised if it didn't have
something available. A quick google search did find me this...

Agoraphobia Group-Provides support for persons suffering from
agoraphobia, social phobia, anxiety and panic attacks; 111 Majorca Ave;
Miami, Florida, 33134; (305)-448-9325.

>>near you that you can participate in. If not, you could form one. You
>>could also consider getting a live in lover or spouse. The saying "Two
> -------
> You must be joking!  A woman wouldnt stand my lifestyle! My house is "dumpy"
> by most standards;

There are a lot of people in the world and some of them are bound to
have standards even lower than yours. Many of them probably live
somewhat near to you.

> Its almost impossible for me personally to live cheaper
> alone than with a companion..plus I just dont attract company..but thats
> another subject...

Many of the largest costs for a person are related to housing. These
costs can be shared and this will reduce your individual expenses in
these areas dramatically.

Psychological problems might be better addressed by a professional. If
you can't afford a professional you might try talking to a religious
counselor (such as a priest) for advice.

Anthony

"w3rd" <w3rd@--gmx---.net> wrote in message news:<HYOdnc466fXIERbdRVn-vg@nildram.net>...
> to put it into perspective here in the uk the average house price 30 years
> ago was £4,400
> 30 years later the average house price is £80,000
>

I bought a condo one year ago. My neighbor, who bought the other
(identical) condo in our duplex 16 months ago, just sold after three
weeks on the market for $150,000 more than they paid. We have not made
any improvements into this property, except for replacing the water
line which cost us each about $3K.

It boggles my mind that our condos could've appreciated that much in
such a short period of time. I thought it might be a fluke, but I went
online and checked the sold prices of similar condos in the last three
months, and sure enough, this is typical. If I had waited one year,
I'd never been able to afford this place!!

Of course, I'm also realistic and know that when the interest rates go
back up, the housing prices will stabilize or even go down. But I do
live in an area with pretty constant appreciation since there's no
room to build new construction, the school district is fabulous, and
it's close to public transportation. On average condos are
appreciating more rapidly than houses, about 25% per year over the
last decade or so. In my immediate neighborhood, most of the houses
are multi-family owned for decades w/the other half rented out.
Several are in process of being reno'd with the intent to sell as
condos.

*This* is why I bought a house. Seemed like a good bet for
return-on-investment for the downpayment money I had sitting around.
Tax picture, with all the deductibles, makes my cash flow a lot
better, too.

Obviously, YMMV.

jen

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:xXBic.5159$oN1.2696@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> W
> "Anthony Matonak" > wrote in message :
> > Ok, frugal not by choice but by circumstances. That is, you don't
> > particularly want to be frugal but have to because otherwise you
> > wouldn't have a roof over your head and someone would be coming
> > to break your legs.
> -------
> Very true;as new immigrants and parents with a 6th grade education while i
> was growing up,,though i never missed
> the neccesities;i was always lacking the finer things everybody else seemed
> to have(new bikes comic books
> cool clothes(this was the 1960's) and i coveted them like
>  crazy..Maybe thats why i got my first job at 13...
> Maybe its that "hunger" for things that u couldnt have when u were younger
> that prompts over consumption
> With one exception everybody at the office is a first generation immigrant!
> >
> >>
> > > Basically that forms most of my social circle as I tend to be reclusive
> and
> > > somewhat of a loner...
> >
> > Get a bigger social circle, include some people who have similar values
> > as you. Perhaps there is a frugal group that holds regular meetings
> ---------
> I dont think there are groups like that in Miami..Miami
> is a very image concious town (remember Miami Vice?)
> South Beach...etc people semingly tend to rate you based on what you are
> wearing what you drive etc...
> Maybe its a Miami thing...and an immigrant thing living up to what is
> perceived as the american dream...
>
> > near you that you can participate in. If not, you could form one. You
> > could also consider getting a live in lover or spouse. The saying "Two
> -------
> You must be joking!  A woman wouldnt stand my lifestyle!

Some choose to live that way too.

> My house is "dumpy" by most standards;
> I rarely turn on the air conditioning even in Miami weather
> (stand up and ceiling fans only)I've seen $300 monthly
> electrical bills from some of my co-workers  mine is about
> $40-45 a month.

> Its almost impossible for me personally
> to live cheaper alone than with a companion..

Its always cheaper to split costs like that across two incomes.

> plus I just dont attract company..but thats another subject...

Sure.

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> I don't post much here but I lurk continuosly......
> I've been following a rather frugal lifestyle for the past 5 yrs or so after
> finding myself in a heap of financial troubles
> because of poor decisions and habits..I've cut down  on  a lot of
> expenses..been driving the same car for 6 yrs...
> bag my lunch...don't go out too much etc..
> While still I have not been able to save any money for retirement (I'm 47
> yrs old)..I  now have relatively little debt except for my mortage  and
> because of  the ability to
> retain my cash longer I don't find myself needing to go to the ATM every day
> or delaying payment of bills or not buying neccesities,etc.
> Yet,almost every day I ask myself why I do this..why do
> I not charge up my credit cards again or resume my bad
> habits and have fun in life;considering that almost everyone I know seems
> not to have a care in the world
> regarding spending money..
> My point of reference is the people I work with,,a group
> of 30+ people;most of whom have been there 5-10 yrs.
> Basically that forms most of my social circle as I tend to be reclusive and
> somewhat of a loner...
> I've been there the longest(going on 26 yrs);and my salary
> is very good;I'm the  best-paid employee next to the owners and
> managers..and  being an accounting employee I know how much all the others
> make and their
> personal status(married,children,etc).
> It seeems to me that I'm the only one who even tries to practice a frugal
> lifestyle;not based on buying and owning more and more things or  spending
> money on things that
> could be substituted for cheaper stuff .etc.
> I'll state a few examples as to why I feel that I'm the only person I know
> who isn't caught up inthis endless cycle of
> over-consumption...
> Out of the 30+ people who work at my  company,at least
> 15 drive SUV'S...some of them live 30-40 miles from the office one way(one
> commutes 150 miles round trip every workday!)...Most of these SUV'S are
> barely 2-3 years
> old....and some of these are expensive models(BMW,    Etc)
> At least  2/3 of the office workers buy out or eat lunch out everyday..Most
> come to the office everyday with a cup of Starbucks in their hands while we
> have great coffee in the lunchroom...Most buy bottled water or fancy
> bottled teas etc while we have a water service and a 50cent soda vending
> machine in the lunchroom....
> Most of the women(and they make up 1/3 of the office
> staff)seem to get their hair and nails and toes done every week...seem to
> get a lot of stuff in the mail from catalogs and online stores...
> I seem to be the only one who lives in an older house in a
> working class section of town...they live in new suburbs or even the next
> county..and from the conversations I hear their houses are huge and
> beautiful(Mc Mansions?)
> I hear conversations of  $1500/month mortgages and
> $300 auto lease payments all the  time...
> One woman in particular filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy  less than a year
> ago..and just last week she showed around pictures of a boat she just
> bought...
> Some employees seem to come to me every week and ask for small cash
> advances($20-$100)sometimes to be
> able to buy lunch for that day(as they tell me)...
> People here tend to patronize a lot of  sports and concert events,which are
> not cheap...
> Of  course I'm making huge generalities here regarding
> the staff..obviously not everybody is the same or does the same things..so
> what's my point...?
> I don't know...except that I feel somewhat bothered that
> these people make a lot less money than I do and seem to
> be enjoying life more than I do,,,even though I see the signs that some of
> them are in deep financial trouble..Most of them are married and of
> course,maybe
> with the addition of their mates's salary they are able to indulge
> themselves these ways..but still..I feel a bit "lonely"
> in my attempt at simple living and being frugal in the "real" world..The
> only frugal people I know seem to exist here and other websites and
> newsgroups...
> I'm in Miami,Florida;which a few years ago was listed as the poorest big
> city in America...this is a town that probably has the most prominent
> displays of income and
> social class differences anywhere in the country  with all
> our legal and illegal immigrants plus being basically a tourist service
> based economy...standing next to rich
> South Americans and comfortable retirees living in waterfront condominiums
> and driving Lexus and Mercedes'...
> I wonder if that's why the people down here seem to be in an upward spiral
> of status seeking ...
> Any thoughts on this?

Those living like you do have always been a tiny minority in the
first world where most can afford a decent standard of living.

And as long as you dont get into severe financial difficultys,
you can make a case for spending what is left over after
making a decent provision for your time after you stop
working on the sort of thing that you like to have/do.

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:AeCic.3805$7a5.1436@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
>
>
> . You
> > > could also consider getting a live in lover or spouse. The saying "Two
> > -------
> > You must be joking!  A woman wouldnt stand my lifestyle! My house is
> "dumpy"
> > by most standards;
> > I rarely turn on the air conditioning even in Miami weather
> > (stand up and ceiling fans only)I've seen $300 monthly
> > electrical bills from some of my co-workers  mine is about
> > $40-45 a month.
> > Its almost impossible for me personally to live cheaper
> > alone than with a companion..plus I just dont attract company..but thats
> > another subject...
> > -------
> OOPS!
> I meant it would be impossible to live cheaper with a companion than how i
> live alone....

That's never true with what comes out of your salary for
the basic costs like electricity and property taxes etc
except when the living accommodation is so minimal that
it isnt possible for another person to fit in there with you.

od <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%ECic.76591$UC4.61072@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> Rod Speed wrote

>>> I meant it would be impossible to live cheaper
>>> with a companion than how i live alone....

>> That's never true with what comes out of your salary for
>> the basic costs like electricity and property taxes etc
>> except when the living accommodation is so minimal that
>> it isnt possible for another person to fit in there with you.

> You would have to have people with
> similar attitudes towards being frugal

Sure, but such women do exist. And some of them may well
be able to reduce your food costs particularly significantly too.

> and who are compatible in other ways
> to make an arrangemnet like that work..

Sure, but thats true of almost all living together situations.

> one person may like to have the Air conditioner on 24/7
> in Miami or take long hot water extended showers ..

Sure, you'd clearly need to check what here approach is on that stuff
and give her the bums rush if she lies about it before shacking up etc.

> Or one may leave the toothpaste cap
> off the tube and drive the other batty...

Sure, but thats true of almost all living together situations.
Yes, you could be so unreasonable that you couldnt coexist
with someone who did anything different to the way you do
things, but thats not that common, even with scrouges.

> It's extremely hard if not impossible to  find persons
> willing or able to agree on living with somewhat  non
> stellar living conditions like I do to save some money..

Oh bullshit. Plenty of trailer trash live even worse.

Some choose to 'live' in complete rundown hovels too.

od <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:IwCic.76546$UC4.41537@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> You could also consider getting a live in lover or spouse.

>>> You must be joking!  A woman wouldnt stand my lifestyle!

>> Some choose to live that way too.

> Dammit Mr. Speed.!...Just.Where the heck are they???

All over the place. Certainly they arent common, but
then neither are males that choose to live like you do too.

> At least not in Miami...I just don't think so...

Bet there are.

>>> My house is "dumpy" by most standards;
>>> I rarely turn on the air conditioning even in Miami weather.

"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message
news:onEic.11309$8Q2.2096@fe38.usenetserver.com...
> > Before we bought our house with a $1500 per month mortgage payment, we
> lived
> > in an apartment that was less than 1/2 the size of this house.  It cost
us
> > $1000 per month, and at the end of the year we had no equity.  At least
> with
> > the house, we aren't throwing ALL of the monthly money into a black
hole,
> > we'll have at least something to show for it eventually.  It makes more
> > sense to me.
>
> Notwithstanding any money that you put DOWN on the house, the equity you
are
> building from your monthly payment is very minute.
>
> Saying that you have a 150,000 mortgage at 6.125 percent for 30 years,
your
> equity is less than $200 per month for more than five years.  In fact, it
> doesn't break $200 until payment #64.  YOu can see this for yourself at
> www.amo-mortgage.com/amortization.html. It makes infinitely more sense to
> buy a less expensive house where you are able to finance for a shorter
> period of time, thus increasing your equity significantly.
>
Most equity growth comes from market appreciation, and that factor is
entirely unaffected by whether or not the property is mortgaged or by the
size of the mortgage.  In periods of rising prices (my entire life to date)
the length of the mortgage will have a minimal overall impact on equity.

For instance, my grandparents bought their place back in the 1920's for
maybe $5,000.  Self-amortizing mortgages were pretty much unheard of in
those days, so the purchase was financed with an old fashioned "standing
mortgage" where you had to pay only the interest every month.  They NEVER
paid a penny on the principle, and ended up making that interest only
mortgage payment every month for their entire lives.  Nonetheless, when they
died twenty plus years ago, the property sold for in excess of $60,000.
They had over $55,000 in equity.

to put it into perspective here in the uk the average house price 30 years
ago was £4,400
30 years later the average house price is £80,000

so sure the bank made their profits on the interest they charged you,
assuming you were swapping your mortgage every few years to the most
competitive mortgage provider, what better way is there to purchase a
property?


"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message
news:JwEic.12201$5f.11022@fe21...
> "w3rd" <w3rd@--gmx---.net> wrote in message
> news:aP2dnXjQlZPpNhfdRVn-gw@nildram.net...
> > if you can afford to spend $1500 on a mortgage each month, surely thats
an
> > investment which will make you more money, rather than a waste of money
> and
> > something that will "make the banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and
> > richer and more powerful?"
> >
>
> Sure, banks do it just to be nice, right?  I don't suppose you have ever
> seen an amortization?  Let's see on a $1500 payment the BANK is making
over
> $700 for each payment you make.
>
> Lord, their good people.
>
> Em
>
>
>

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:35:58 -0500, "Auntie Em" <Auntie
Em@thisisfake.com> wrote:

[SNIP]
>They are pitiful and
>pathetic and those of us who have ascribed to the frugal way of life are
>superior to them in every way.
[SNIP]

I believe you mean "...those of us who have *subscribed* to the frugal
way of life..."  Ascribe means (roughly) attribute (the verb, not the
noun)..

How idiotic some can be-- teasing her in the beginning for being frugal and
now when she is able to enjoy over 100 days off a year they are jealous and
have not a clue as to WHY she can do this!!
Some people cannot see past their nose....sad...

Peggy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Andy" <inevercheckthismailbox@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:408BBF93.1000008@yahoo.com...
> od wrote:
> > Yet,almost every day I ask myself why I do this..why do
> > I not charge up my credit cards again or resume my bad
> > habits and have fun in life;considering that almost everyone I know
seems
> > not to have a care in the world
> > regarding spending money..
>
> > It seeems to me that I'm the only one who even tries to practice a
frugal
> > lifestyle;not based on buying and owning more and more things or
spending
> > money on things that
> > could be substituted for cheaper stuff .etc.
>
> > Out of the 30+ people who work at my  company,at least
> > 15 drive SUV'S...some of them live 30-40 miles from the office one
way(one
> > commutes 150 miles round trip every workday!)...Most of these SUV'S are
> > barely 2-3 years
> > old....and some of these are expensive models(BMW,    Etc)
> > At least  2/3 of the office workers buy out or eat lunch out
everyday..Most
> > come to the office everyday with a cup of Starbucks in their hands while
we
> > have great coffee in the lunchroom...Most buy bottled water or fancy
> > bottled teas etc while we have a water service and a 50cent soda vending
> > machine in the lunchroom....
>
> A large number of Americans maximize their consumption by spending every
> cent they make and using credit as much as possible.  These people will
> always have the latest cars, houses, and gadgets, but they will never
> have any financial security; they will always be vulnerable to losing
> everything if they have a single setback (unemployment, disability, etc).
>
> There is nothing inherently wrong with living a spendthrift life.  They
> are just taking a gamble that they won't have any setbacks and that
> somehow retirement will take care of itself.  As long as they are
> willing to take the consequences without whining, more power to them.
>
> You may not consume as much as they do, but long term, you will tend to
> end up with better financial security.  You are less likely to lose your
> home to a foreclosure; you are less likely to go bankrupt; you are less
> likely to be eating catfood in retirement.
>
> A frugal friend of mine is a nurse, and she and her co-workers make good
> money.  She has worked in the same place for probably 15 years.  Many of
> her co-workers are spendthrifts. Over the years they would tease her for
> driving an old economy car when she could be leasing BMWs and Mercedes
> like they were.  They were buying big houses while she was living in a 2
> bedroom apartment.  These days she works only about 2/3rds of the year,
> and spends the rest of her time traveling all over the world.  Her
> spendthrift co-workers are now jealous; they don't understand how she
> can afford to only work part time, and how she can afford to travel the
> world.
>
> Its all just a trade off between different options.
>
> Andy
>
>
>

>Now, about your post.
>
>What you have to ask yourself is whether or not these people are truly happy
>with their lifestyle. Oh, they may claim to be, but I promise you, the only
>thing that makes them "happy" is buying more, and more and more and more,
>and it is a happiness that is very fleeting.  People who are addicted to
>consuming have no idea what true happiness means.  They are pitiful and
>pathetic and those of us who have ascribed to the frugal way of life are
>superior to them in every way.  Never forget this.

While I think so me people may be unhappy with their lifestyle, I dont
believe that all consumers ar eunhappy.  And frankly just becaue
people buy things that you wouldnt doesnt make them addicted to
consuming
>
>Can you imagine a woman who feels so bad about herself that she must pay $45
>dollars to buy a set of fake fingernails in order to make herself feel
>better?  Can you imagine anything more pathetic than that?

Gee, I feel just fine about myself.  although I no longer have fake
nails (loved em but they ruined the nails underneath), O do get a
manicure weekly and my hair colored and cut every three weeks.  Works
for me.
>
>How stupid is paying $1500 a month for a mortgage? Do you have any idea how
>much money they are spending in INTREST that serves only to make the
>banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and richer and more powerful?  They
>are giving away their power to someone who would throw them out on the
>street to die if they miss ONE PAYMENT.

I pay a 1400 mortage, as I have mentioned more than once in this
group. I can definitely afford it, and my home is more than worth it.
I consider my home to be an investment, both financially and in terms
o
>
>These people deserve our pity and nothing more.  Be proud of your lifestyle
>and who you are.

While I dont think one should be ashamed of any lifestyle, I am always
amazed at those who  have to trash the way others ilvie in order to
validate their own way of life.

barb
>
>EM
>
>

Reply to below.
------------------------
It is just recently that I begin to be able to have some
really disposable income...I'm trying to start the 6-8 month emergency fund
reccomended by many...
There's always something..a leaky roof took away about
$2000   unexpected car repairs took away $500...
I was diagnosed with diabetes in November.plus I have
high blood pressure and some circulatory problems...
medications even with insurance are costing me  about
$150/month plus increased doctor visits are $25 co-payment each... after
insurance...
At least those things are not being put on a credit card
all paid in cash from my ever dwindling emergency fund..
I think I'm doing fine  Thank You
OD
"suzn" <@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > While still I have not been able to save any money for retirement (I'm
47
> > yrs old)..I  now have relatively little debt except for my mortage  and
> > because of  the ability to
> > retain my cash longer
>
> Then why on earth are you not able to save any money?
>
>

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:26:52 -0500, "Auntie Em" <Auntie
Em@thisisfake.com> wrote:

>"Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in message
>news:PeKdnbcmxYD-JhfdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>> "od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> > Any thoughts on this?
>>
>> Yes. There's no one more fanatical than a reformed sinner.
>>
>> Life is not a frugality contest. Live your life as you wish
>> and let others do the same without criticism. Your way is
>> not necessarily better than theirs.
>>
>> Don
>>
>
>Yeah, apathy is ALWAYS the best approach. What are you doing in this
>newsgroup anyway with an attitude like that?

Darlin, this newsgroup is not about being the frugality police, nor
about is it about decididing how others should live their lives.

Barb
>
>Em
>
>

> > I wonder if that's why the people down here seem to be in an
> upward spiral
> > of status seeking ...
> > Any thoughts on this?
>
> Yes.  First off, congrats on whittling down your debts.  Second, you
> seem to be spending quite a bit of time contemplating your
> co-workers' financial situations.  Why?  Does it affect you at all?
> Other than the requests for cash advances that is and surely there's
> a company policy to handle that.  Are you satisfied with your six
> year old car?  Do you like the lunches you bring?  If the answers
> are yes than why on earth does someone else's car (SUV or otherwise)
> or lunch plans bother you?  You don't have to deal with your
> co-workers' long commutes or make their house payments so again, how
> does that affect you?  Perhaps you should find something else to
> occupy your time with.
>
> Paula

It's not "affecting" me in any way..Its just an observation
and a reaffirmation that only in this newsgroup and very
few other websites do I see the concept of being frugal
and practicing simple living being discussed...In most
of the "real" world(at least my "real" world)those concepts are almost
non-existent...Get the big  car..get into a lease..get another new
cellphone(I don't own one)..etc
It's all spend and spend and talk about it by the water cooler.. and I was
wondering if that's a question of  Miami  and South Florida in general being
an area where
looks and image and social status were so important... or of immigrants(I'ma
first generation immigrant myself)
getting the distorted notion of the so called "american dream" is to be
obtained by conspicuos consumption.
My original curiosity was to see if the group agrees sees it as that or
something else...
I'm doing fine for myself ..I think..
Thank You
OD

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net>...
> My point of reference is the people I work with,,a group
> of 30+ people;most of whom have been there 5-10 yrs.
> Basically that forms most of my social circle as I tend to be reclusive and
> somewhat of a loner...
> It seeems to me that I'm the only one who even tries to practice a frugal
> lifestyle;not based on buying and owning more and more things or  spending
> money on things that
> could be substituted for cheaper stuff .etc.
...
> themselves these ways..but still..I feel a bit "lonely"
> in my attempt at simple living and being frugal in the "real" world..The
> only frugal people I know seem to exist here and other websites and
> newsgroups...

A few remarks and suggestions:

You're doing well.  Keep your frugal habits, look to create new
sources of income.  Take in a boarder or two.  Consider a weekend job
that gets you more exposure to the public - clerking at the
supermarket, working the counter at a coffeehouse; go out of your way
to be polite and engaging. Bank all the proceeds; when you have enough
saved, consider buying a well-priced rental house or 4-plex after the
RE bubble bursts in 1-3 years.

[Assuming you're male...]

As for a companion, start with a dog.  You'll meet plenty of women
with dogs.

There are lots of sweet cheapskate women in this world, but its your
job to find and chase them, and not all of them are size 4.  Go to
church mixers and retreats - even if you're not religious, find a
church you like, and give it a chance - lots of notso religious people
still find each other in the pews or at the coffee hour after the
sermon.

Take courses at the local junior college, and volunteer for charity
events - I met my girlfriend while cooking 2,000 hotdogs for a
walkathon.  Overcome your reclusiveness - join Toastmasters and
practice public-speaking.  Get out, get visible.  Find ways to give
more of yourself, someone will notice.

Don't worry about other folks' non-frugal ways.  They're doing their
duty as patriotic consumers.  Without them, our entire economy would
tank.  20 years from now, they'll still be broke, and you'll be
relaxing on the beach.

Good luck to you.

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> I don't post much here but I lurk continuosly......
> I've been following a rather frugal lifestyle for the past 5 yrs
or so after
> finding myself in a heap of financial troubles
> because of poor decisions and habits..I've cut down  on  a lot of
> expenses..been driving the same car for 6 yrs...
> bag my lunch...don't go out too much etc..
> While still I have not been able to save any money for retirement
(I'm 47
> yrs old)..I  now have relatively little debt except for my mortage
and
> because of  the ability to
> retain my cash longer I don't find myself needing to go to the ATM
every day
> or delaying payment of bills or not buying neccesities,etc.
> Yet,almost every day I ask myself why I do this..why do
> I not charge up my credit cards again or resume my bad
> habits and have fun in life;considering that almost everyone I
know seems
> not to have a care in the world
>
> <snip>
>
> It seeems to me that I'm the only one who even tries to practice a
frugal
> lifestyle;not based on buying and owning more and more things or
spending
> money on things that
> could be substituted for cheaper stuff .etc.
>
> <bigger snip>
>
> I wonder if that's why the people down here seem to be in an
upward spiral
> of status seeking ...
> Any thoughts on this?

Yes.  First off, congrats on whittling down your debts.  Second, you
seem to be spending quite a bit of time contemplating your
co-workers' financial situations.  Why?  Does it affect you at all?
Other than the requests for cash advances that is and surely there's
a company policy to handle that.  Are you satisfied with your six
year old car?  Do you like the lunches you bring?  If the answers
are yes than why on earth does someone else's car (SUV or otherwise)
or lunch plans bother you?  You don't have to deal with your
co-workers' long commutes or make their house payments so again, how
does that affect you?  Perhaps you should find something else to
occupy your time with.

Paula

"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message
news:BAxic.11198$8Q2.5507@fe38.usenetserver.com...
>
> Can you imagine a woman who feels so bad about herself that she
must pay $45
> dollars to buy a set of fake fingernails in order to make herself
feel
> better?  Can you imagine anything more pathetic than that?

Actually, I can.  It's someone who makes generalizations about other
people based entirely on her perception about what's worthwhile to
spend money on.


> How stupid is paying $1500 a month for a mortgage? Do you have any
idea how
> much money they are spending in INTREST that serves only to make
the
> banks/mortgage companies, etc. richer and richer and more
powerful?

Well, now, that depends on local housing prices, doesn't it?  Around
here it's virtually impossible to buy a house/condo with only a
$1,500 mortgage and I'm not talking about McMansions.

Paula

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0Cwic.75675$UC4.51233@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> While still I have not been able to save any money for retirement (I'm 47
> yrs old)..I  now have relatively little debt except for my mortage  and
> because of  the ability to
> retain my cash longer

Then why on earth are you not able to save any money?

"Auntie Em" <Auntie Em@thisisfake.com> wrote in message
news:BAxic.11198$8Q2.5507@fe38.usenetserver.com...
> Can you imagine a woman who feels so bad about herself that she must pay
$45
> dollars to buy a set of fake fingernails in order to make herself feel
> better?  Can you imagine anything more pathetic than that?

I have a neighbor who gets her nails done regularly because she
claims she just cant grow pretty nails. So what...the world wont
come to an end if your nails aren't perfect. She also spends endless hours
in her own
tanning bed at home. Yuck. Works out at the gym.... etc etc.
She is the same woman who is always borrowing my yard tools,
because she cant afford to buy her own, crying that she is sick
and cant afford a doctor, borrowing DH to work on her computer and
CONSTANTLY bitching because she has no money.
She doesn't get it.....

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:39:23 -0400, "od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>I don't know...except that I feel somewhat bothered that
>these people make a lot less money than I do and seem to
>be enjoying life more than I do,,,

The only way to resolve this is to interview all your co-workers and
ask them detailed questions about their financial status and relative
contentment, as well as revealing that you know how much they make.
*Not* a good idea.

Why do you care? If they appear to be living beyond their means, they
are either in debt or have additional sources of income. This doesn't
affect your own situation in the slightest. You have experienced the
problems of debt, and yet wonder if you'd be "happier" running up more
of the same. This is rather like a recovering alcoholic saying that
people who drink seem to have more fun, and wondering if he should
start drinking again.

"od" <anguulo@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:gXSic.44403$Yw5.36369@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

> It is just recently that I begin to be able to have some
> really disposable income...I'm trying to start the 6-8 month emergency
fund
> reccomended by many...
> There's always something..a leaky roof took away about
> $2000   unexpected car repairs took away $500...
> I was diagnosed with diabetes in November.plus I have
> high blood pressure and some circulatory problems...
> medications even with insurance are costing me  about
> $150/month plus increased doctor visits are $25 co-payment each... after
> insurance...
> At least those things are not being put on a credit card
> all paid in cash from my ever dwindling emergency fund..
> I think I'm doing fine  Thank You

That would explain why you haven't been able to save extra then.....

> She is the same woman who is always borrowing my yard tools,
> because she cant afford to buy her own, crying that she is sick
> and cant afford a doctor, borrowing DH to work on her computer and

i hope thats all shes borrowing him for.

> CONSTANTLY bitching because she has no money.
> She doesn't get it.....

sounds like a skank.