the spider's tunnel

Thread View: rec.arts.books.tolkien

5 messages

[T] Back to Threads [V] Tree View [G] Group Articles

5 total messages Started by Rich D Mon, 03 Apr 2023 14:48

Author: Rich D
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 14:48

9 lines
275 bytes

If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
a possible entry point for spies?

I mean, if he could build the baddest fortress in
the world, he couldn't send a few orcs with large
stones to block the entrance?

--
Rich

Re: the spider's tunnel

#11

Author: Stan Brown
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2023 06:46

27 lines
1258 bytes

On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 13:24:12 +0000 (UTC), Julian Bradfield wrote:
> On 2023-04-03, Rich D <rdelaney2001@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
> > Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
> > a possible entry point for spies?
>
> It was useful for transit between Barad-dûr and Minas Morgul. And it
> was very heavily guarded.
> Of course, he was neither all powerful nor omniscient, so the premise
> is false too.

The tunnel was indeed heavily guarded, but not by Sauron's slaves.
There was no need.

LotR in Book IV chapter 9: "It pleased [Sauron] that she should dwell
there hungry but unabated in malice, a more sure watch upon that
ancient path into his land than any other that his skill could have
devised. And Orcs, they were useful slaves, but he had them in
plenty. If now and again Shelob caught them to stay her appetite, she
was welcome: he could spare them."

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
                                 https://BrownMath.com/
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
Tolkien letters FAQ: https://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
FAQ of the Rings: https://BrownMath.com/general/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

Re: the spider's tunnel

#13

Author: Stan Brown
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2023 10:15

37 lines
1711 bytes

On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:57:07 +0000 (UTC), Julian Bradfield wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-04, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 13:24:12 +0000 (UTC), Julian Bradfield wrote:
> >> On 2023-04-03, Rich D <rdelaney2001@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
> >> > Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
> >> > a possible entry point for spies?
> >>
> >> It was useful for transit between Barad-dûr and Minas Morgul. And it
> >> was very heavily guarded.
> >> Of course, he was neither all powerful nor omniscient, so the premise
> >> is false too.
> >
> > The tunnel was indeed heavily guarded, but not by Sauron's slaves.
> > There was no need.
>
> It was guarded by garrisons of Orcs both in the Morgul valley and on
> the Mordor side of the pass (and there were the Silent Watchers), as well
> as by Shelob. Frodo was taken to the tower when the Orcs found
> his poisoned body.

You're partly right, I think. Sauron didn't have guards inside the
tunnel, as far as we knew, but he did have guards in the Tower of
Cirith Ungol at the upper end.

The lower end wasn't effectively guarded, though: Gollum, Frodo, and
Sam just walked in. Maybe somebody in Minas Morgul was supposed to be
watching but didn't, or maybe Minas Morgul was standing empty after
the Witch-King and his army marched west.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
                                 https://BrownMath.com/
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
Tolkien letters FAQ: https://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
FAQ of the Rings: https://BrownMath.com/general/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

Re: the spider's tunnel

#10

Author: Julian Bradfield
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2023 13:24

8 lines
374 bytes

On 2023-04-03, Rich D <rdelaney2001@gmail.com> wrote:
> If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
> Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
> a possible entry point for spies?

It was useful for transit between Barad-dûr and Minas Morgul. And it
was very heavily guarded.
Of course, he was neither all powerful nor omniscient, so the premise
is false too.

Re: the spider's tunnel

#12

Author: Julian Bradfield
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2023 15:57

18 lines
849 bytes

On 2023-04-04, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 13:24:12 +0000 (UTC), Julian Bradfield wrote:
>> On 2023-04-03, Rich D <rdelaney2001@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
>> > Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
>> > a possible entry point for spies?
>>
>> It was useful for transit between Barad-dûr and Minas Morgul. And it
>> was very heavily guarded.
>> Of course, he was neither all powerful nor omniscient, so the premise
>> is false too.
>
> The tunnel was indeed heavily guarded, but not by Sauron's slaves.
> There was no need.

It was guarded by garrisons of Orcs both in the Morgul valley and on
the Mordor side of the pass (and there were the Silent Watchers), as well
as by Shelob. Frodo was taken to the tower when the Orcs found
his poisoned body.

Thread Navigation

This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.

Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.

Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.

Back to All Threads