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In article <cb6igm$hvu$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>,
River Horse  <hippo@comcast.net> wrote:
#What are the thoughts of this distinguished group on mixing the ammo
#types in a personal defense weapon.
#
#For instance, my S&W 628 holds 5 rounds.  I have been thinking about
#loading the first round with shotshells, the second and third with
#Hydro-Shock, and the last two with solid bullets.

  This is getting rather tricky and complicated.

#This would provide a non-lethal first round,

  This round certainly can be lethal!

  If you are hoping for a sort of "discouraging" round - that's a bad
idea.  When shooting at a person, you are using "lethal force" even with
a shotshell.

#two non-penetrating rounds,

  These rounds certainly do penetrate!

  They don't penetrate as deeply, on the average, as solid bullets.  But
hollow point bullets are generally considered very appropriate for self
defense use.

#and two for deep penetration.

  Or maybe overpenetration?  (I.e. go through the target and keep on
going.)

  They tend to make a minimum wound track diameter.

  But they would be better for firing at vehicles or other protected
targets.

#The lethality increases with each type.

  Not necessarily.

#Assuming I can keep the revolver properly loaded and positioned, is this
#a good idea?
#
#On the other hand, I can imagine the pressures of any altercation will
#make any thoughts of ammo type impossible...

  Or maybe you'll just be paralyzed into inaction when trying to count
shots and match the right load with the right target?
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu


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On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:58:14 +0000 (UTC), River Horse
<hippo@comcast.net> wrote:

#What are the thoughts of this distinguished group on mixing the ammo
#types in a personal defense weapon.
#
#For instance, my S&W 628 holds 5 rounds.  I have been thinking about
#loading the first round with shotshells, the second and third with
#Hydro-Shock, and the last two with solid bullets.
#
#This would provide a non-lethal first round, two non-penetrating rounds,
#and two for deep penetration.  The lethality increases with each type.
#
#Assuming I can keep the revolver properly loaded and positioned, is this
#a good idea?
#
#On the other hand, I can imagine the pressures of any altercation will
#make any thoughts of ammo type impossible...
#
#Cheers!
#~steve
#
Chuck the shot shells. Dropping the hammer on someone is strictly in
cases where they are trying to kill you or yours.  There is no earthly
reason to shoot them with a non lethal bullet. If you don't have the
legal right to shoot, leave the gun in the holster.

Settle on one type of ammo in the gun.  Hollow points are recommended,
with some thoughtful dissent.

Strider


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On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:58:14 +0000 (UTC), River Horse
<hippo@comcast.net> wrote:

#What are the thoughts of this distinguished group on mixing the ammo
#types in a personal defense weapon.
#
#For instance, my S&W 628 holds 5 rounds.  I have been thinking about
#loading the first round with shotshells, the second and third with
#Hydro-Shock, and the last two with solid bullets.
#
#This would provide a non-lethal first round, two non-penetrating rounds,
#and two for deep penetration.  The lethality increases with each type.
#
#Assuming I can keep the revolver properly loaded and positioned, is this
#a good idea?

No. The obvious reason is that rapid accurate fire would be
impossible. The recoil levels and point of impact will vary from shot
to shot. If the bad guy is 5 feet away that would not be a major deal,
but why make things harder for you? It makes zero sense to me.

Use one effective man-stopper ammo and practice practice practice. I
like Winchester Silvertip in my Glock.



John Davies
http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/
'96 Lexus LX450
'00 Audi A4 1.8T quattro
Spokane WA USA


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"River Horse" <hippo@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:cb6igm$hvu$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# What are the thoughts of this distinguished group on mixing the ammo
# types in a personal defense weapon.
#
# For instance, my S&W 628 holds 5 rounds.  I have been thinking about
# loading the first round with shotshells, the second and third with
# Hydro-Shock, and the last two with solid bullets.
#
# This would provide a non-lethal first round, two non-penetrating rounds,
# and two for deep penetration.  The lethality increases with each type.
#
# Assuming I can keep the revolver properly loaded and positioned, is this
# a good idea?
#
# On the other hand, I can imagine the pressures of any altercation will
# make any thoughts of ammo type impossible...
#
# Cheers!
# ~steve


Why in the world would you want to have a non-lethal first round, your very
life may depend on the first shot!!!!!  If you have to draw and fire your
gun that means you in you are in fear of your life and you had better shoot
to stop the attack.  I suggest you take a self defense class prior to going
armed.



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River Horse:

#For instance, my S&W 628 holds 5 rounds.  I have been thinking about
#loading the first round with shotshells, the second and third with
#Hydro-Shock, and the last two with solid bullets.

#This would provide a non-lethal first round, two non-penetrating rounds,
#and two for deep penetration.  The lethality increases with each type.

If you find yourself in a situation with an armed assailant coming at you with
evil intentions, your most urgent priority is to stop him ASAP.  Forget the
shotshells; you want something that will cause him to assume the prone position
and cease what he was doing - immediately.  Your only need is to immobilize
him.  Lethality is not relevant.

Doug Chandler




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I would suggest the first two be hydro-shok or a similar high quality self
defence round followed by two more of the same and wrapped up with more of the
same.....keep a couple of speed loaders handy with the same load

if a confrontation comes to use of deadly force, be ready to use it and don't
be thinking about what round is under the hammer at the critical time


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River Horse <hippo@comcast.net> wrote:
# What are the thoughts of this distinguished group on mixing the ammo
# types in a personal defense weapon.
#
# For instance, my S&W 628 holds 5 rounds.  I have been thinking about
# loading the first round with shotshells, the second and third with
# Hydro-Shock, and the last two with solid bullets.
#
# This would provide a non-lethal first round, two non-penetrating rounds,
# and two for deep penetration.  The lethality increases with each type.

Unless you plan on getting attacked by a snake, dump the shotshell
round.
You are using a deadly weapon. If you need to fire, do it like you
mean it, and you won't be shorting yourself 20% of your needed
firepower.

Personally, I would load up all chambers with the Hydro-Shocks.
I buy about 4-5 boxes at once, *with the same lot number*, note the
date and what gun they were loaded in and keep the box for possible
future ballistic studies. If the cops screw the pooch on where I was
standing in relation to the BG, I want my attorney to be able to prove
the facts.


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On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:58:14 +0000 (UTC), River Horse
<hippo@comcast.net> wrote:

#What are the thoughts of this distinguished group on mixing the ammo
#types in a personal defense weapon.

I used to do that, but now don't see the point.

If the threat only merits non-lethal force, you shouldn't be using a
gun in the first place.  It's perfectly possible to kill someone with
a blank, nevermind shot.

If you put me in reasonable fear of my life, I'm not cutting you any
breaks, since I'd be stupid to expect you to do the same for me... all
the moreso, given that if I do shoot you with shot and you survive,
you'll probably sue me, claiming that *I* knew you weren't enough of a
threat to use hollowpoints.

If you're enough of a threat to shoot, you're enough of a threat to
shoot with Golden Sabers.

--
More blood for oil... in my name!


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I can understand your rational but keep this is in mind, most
legitimate self-defense shootings happen at VERY close range,
potentially limiting your opportunities for multiple shots/hits. Given
that this scenario is life or death (yours), I'd suggest using the
most effective/likely ammunition to stop your assailant
quickly/immediately.




 nero


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River Horse <hippo@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<cb6igm$hvu$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
 > ...
Steve
You are absolutley correct that any shooting incident will make you
forget how many shots you have let alone what the gun is loaded with!
Stick with one load and practice with that load until it becomes
nearly second nature. If you are only thinking of wounding, or
"shooting them in the knee", you are only kidding yourself. A moving
target under stress is hard to hit even for the experienced guys. If
it comes down to having to fire your weapon in self defense, the
situation has deteriorated to the point you have to use deadly force
and there ain't no time for dinking around. As long as you are going
to use a light caliber you should stick with Hydro Shoks even if they
are expensive to play with!
Ol Shy & Bashful
 > ...


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River Horse <hippo@comcast.net> wrote:

# I have been thinking about
# loading the first round with shotshells, the second and third with
# Hydro-Shock, and the last two with solid bullets.
#
# This would provide a non-lethal first round, two non-penetrating rounds,
# and two for deep penetration.

Sounds like an attempt to violate Murphy's Law.  One chamber off and
you're killing when you meant to wound, or worse, wounding when you
meant to kill.  Keep it super simple; load your 628 (638?) with
whatever your local cops or deputies are issued to put in their
bellyguns and practice, practice, practice.  Be well.


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The rule is.... "never point your gun at anything you don't intend to kill".
That being said....if it comes to the point that you are pointing your gun
and pulling the trigger at an intruder then you should be sure you want to
kill them.  What if you HAVE to kill them and you only have one chance at
one shot before he blows you away...and there y ou are shooting him with
some sissy shot shell.  You're just going to piss him off.   Be serious
about self defense and blow him into the next century.  If you just want to
scare him away, get a dog!  If you are not serious about self defense then
do what you are taught in the concealed weapons classes and walk (or run)
away knowing that if they follow you can still win the fight.  If someone
steps into my home uninvited and with evil on their mind.....they will be
getting a 250 grain slug (or several) from my Dirty Harry gun and I will
sleep like a baby that very night.  Hide the evidence and act like nothing
ever happened!  And I'm NOT going to fire any warning shots!  If they made
the decision to be there then I will make the decision to send them to the
promised land!

Just my $.02 worth.

Have a GREAT day......

Kelly in south central Idaho......


"River Horse" <hippo@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:cb6igm$hvu$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
 > ...




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Steve/River Horse <hippo@comcast.net> wrote...

# What are the thoughts of this distinguished group on
# mixing the ammo types in a personal defense weapon.

Ignoring for the moment the superfluous stroke job, the "mixing of ammo"
is a clear sign of confusion and lack of purpose in the mind of the
person doing the mixed loading.

# For instance, my S&W 628 holds 5 rounds. I have
# been thinking about loading the first round with
# shotshells, the second and third with Hydro-Shock...

In witness whereof, go back and study that Federal ammo box a tiche more
carefully before proceeding further. (Suggest Plabovitz
<plabovitz@aol.com>, Pontiac493 <pontiac493@cox.net> and the Selway Kid
<selwaykid@yahoo.com> all do the same!)

Recommend you stop "thinking" such thoughts, and get thee to a range and
do some practicing.

----
- Dean Speir <DeanSpeir@thegunzone.com>
  Formerly Famous Gunwriter / Gun Zone Maintainer
« =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= »
  It's not a perfect world... it's why we _have_ guns!

  The Gunperson's Authoritative Internet Information
      Resource is at http://www.thegunzone.com.






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"River Horse" <hippo@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:cb6igm$hvu$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# What are the thoughts of this distinguished group on mixing the ammo
# types in a personal defense weapon.

Shotgun, maybe. Pistol with different bullet weights, maybe.

# For instance, my S&W 628 holds 5 rounds.  I have been thinking about
# loading the first round with shotshells, the second and third with
# Hydro-Shock, and the last two with solid bullets.

Shotshells in a PISTOL? NEVER! What are you planning to defend against,
squirrels?

# This would provide a non-lethal first round, two non-penetrating rounds,
# and two for deep penetration.  The lethality increases with each type.

Bad idea. If a guy is coming at you with deadly intent, you don't want to have
to get through 3 rounds before you have a reasonable chance of finishing the
fight. And lose the "solid bullets", if by that you mean FMJ. Get some good
hollowpoints and fill your gun with them.

-Old Dog



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River Horse <hippo@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<cb6igm$hvu$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...

My 0.02: Keep your gun loaded with quality JHP ammo.
It works at any distance, even point blank.
Don´t risk your life with that first non-lethal(and it IS lethal at
close range, even though it´s bird shot it can kill) round; it may be
your last.

Good night everyone



                       FerFAL





 > ...


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These are some great answers.

 The only time I carry different bullets in my handgun, is when Im
panning for gold or fishing out in the sticks, and carry a mixture of
half shot shells and half solids in my Taurus 941 22cal for various
nasty critters I may encounter.
 For defense, its a bad idea.

 Del


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River Horse <hippo@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<cb6igm$hvu$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...

 I agree with all the other posters so far (10). I think it's
  a terrible idea, which has been around a long time.  One
   character told me to load shot for the first round in case
   I got a fright and shot some one accidently,  I and they would then be OK.
    Sure I said, only what if they lost their sight.
  Another wacko told me to leave the first two chambers empty.
  Theory was someone may get your gun off you and go Klick, Klick,
   and give you time to get your gun back.
   I reckon some people should be locked up for their own good.
    John L.
 > ...


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  If someone
# steps into my home uninvited and with evil on their mind.....they will be
# getting a 250 grain slug (or several) from my Dirty Harry gun and I will
# sleep like a baby that very night.  Hide the evidence and act like nothing
# ever happened!

If you tamper with evidence, even if it's a righteous shooting will destroy
your credibility and land YOU in jail.  Defend yourself by stopping the
attack, secure your weapon before the police arrive and  state that you were
in mortal fear for your life and that you know they'll understand that
you're are too emotionally upset to make ANY further statements at this
time.  Call your lawyer and don't say another word about the incident to
anyone.



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Old Dog wrote:

<snip>

# Shotshells in a PISTOL? NEVER! What are you planning to defend against,
# squirrels?

They make good snake loads, but other than that...

--
"At this time, Google policy does not permit the
advertisement of websites that contain 'firearms and
ammunition'."

BOYCOTT GOOGLE

:-)




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Thanks to all for joining in with a thourough thrashing...
I deserved it.

At least I didn't act on it without kicking it around with some gun folks...

I was expecting a lot of responses and some debate: nope on the debate
you all agree, the 638 will forever have 5 identical Hydo-Shock (etc)
rounds.

I did like the idea of loading whatever my local police carry and will
check into that.

Cheers!
~steve

River Horse wrote:
 > ...



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What makes you think you'll get a second shot much less a third or
fourth?



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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:03:32 +0000 (UTC), michaelb8309@yahoo.com
(michaelb) wrote:

 > ...


NEVER  drop the hammer on anyone unless you want to kill them.

SRS



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"River Horse" <hippo@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:cb6igm$hvu$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# What are the thoughts of this distinguished group on mixing the ammo
# types in a personal defense weapon.
#
# For instance, my S&W 628 holds 5 rounds.  I have been thinking about
# loading the first round with shotshells, the second and third with
# Hydro-Shock, and the last two with solid bullets.

I personally fill my mags with FMJ and Hydro shock bullets that alternate
just in case I have to shoot thru something like a door. I can alternate
between them and it will have all the best of both ammos. I can shoot very
fast with my semi auto and it holds 12 x 40 S&W.

I would save the shot shells for hiking or camping and put them in that
configuration then. But I would keep it 5 shot shells 5 hydro shock...



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# I personally fill my mags with FMJ and Hydro shock bullets that alternate
# just in case I have to shoot thru something like a door. I can alternate
# between them and it will have all the best of both ammos. I can shoot very
# fast with my semi auto and it holds 12 x 40 S&W.
#
# I would save the shot shells for hiking or camping and put them in that
# configuration then. But I would keep it 5 shot shells 5 hydro shock...

So you're telling us that you're able to keep such an accurate bullet count
that you always know which round is in the pipe and you can do this under
the extreme stress of a self defense encounter?  Where are you located, I'd
love to train under you........



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"D.L. Man" <hdl13@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<cbovss$pbr$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
# I personally fill my mags with FMJ and Hydro shock bullets that alternate
# just in case I have to shoot thru something like a door. I can alternate
# between them and it will have all the best of both ammos. I can shoot very
# fast with my semi auto and it holds 12 x 40 S&W.

Assuming that shooting through a car door is still self defence...

Why would a JHP penetrate a door less well than a FMJ?  Assuming both
bullets are the same weight, it ought not make any difference.  The
same should also apply to automotive glass and other similar barriers.


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