🚀 go-pugleaf

Anthony wrote:

> The Texas Legislative session maybe over but the Fed's are still at it.
> Check out what the EPA is planning and what we need to do about it.
>
> BIKERS-DO YOU LOVE YOUR RIDE? HAVE YOU CHANGED ANYTHING ON IT?
>
> THEN YOU MUST READ THIS
>
> Join Operation Wrench or throw away your wrenches. It is up to you.

> For those of you who think we are crying the sky is falling;

 It's not falling, but it is definitely dangerously
polluted due to lack of pollution regulation. In some
places, people need to cover their faces with cloth to
breathe, and awe inspiring mountain views are gone due
to smog. Do you "think" you can simply move to another
planet when short sighted, selfish, and ignorant behavior
has made our atmosphere unfit to breathe?

> you had better take a closer look at what the EPA is
> proposing for motorcycles;

 I notice the specific EPA proposals are predictably
absent from your post. The EPA needs to get tough on
pollution. I'll give them a call...
 Henry

M. J. Freeman wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Or maybe I was unaware of just how restrictive California's emmisssions
> standards are.  Y'all really can't repair your own motorycles?  *boggle*
> That must really suck.  Are the Emmissions Nazis authorized to shoot on
> sight yet?
>
No. Instead they use you for propoganda purposes by harrassing you until
you commit suicide in frustration, after having told all your friends,
neighbors and relations how gruesome it's been. It's a very effective
strategy -- look what it's done for gun control.

Al Moore
DoD 734

Buddy Love wrote:

> Nice troll.

 You should post after the text you're replying to,
and I wasn't trolling. If clueless folks like you
continue to thoughtlessly trash our planet, we're
all fucked - and not in a good way.
 HTH

> A search on groups.google.com turned up quite a lot on
> you.  Welcome to my killfile.

> On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:21:33 -0400, "Henry H. Hansteen"
> <hhh3@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> >to smog. Do you "think" you can simply move to another
> >planet when short sighted, selfish, and ignorant behavior
> >has made our atmosphere unfit to breathe?

Buddy Love wrote:

> http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/largesi/f00046.pdf
> http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/largesi/f00046.htm
>
> Pick whichever format you like better.  The important part is titled:
>
> "Emission Standards for New Land-Based Recreational Engines and
> Highway Motorcycles"

 What is it you read that's troubling you, and why does the
idea of a cleaner burning engine bother you? I pleased and
impressed with the advancements in performance, economy
and reliability of newer engines on both bikes and cars.
 What is it you're whining about, exactly?
 Are you from Texas?
 Henry

"Henry H. Hansteen" <hhh3@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:3B7D49F4.784E33EB@cornell.edu...

>  What is it you read that's troubling you, and why does the
> idea of a cleaner burning engine bother you? I pleased and
> impressed with the advancements in performance, economy
> and reliability of newer engines on both bikes and cars.
>  What is it you're whining about, exactly?
>  Are you from Texas?
>  Henry

I think what disturbs me most is the hypocrisy inherent in the proposed
legislation. Industrial pollution is infinitely more voluminous (and
damaging to the environment) than that generated by automobiles, which,
themselves, greatly overshadow motorcycles. Yet, as an ever-tighter noose of
regulation closes around the motorcycle and automotive industries, major
industrial polluters go their merry way, spewing whatever they please into
the environment, protected by waivers and grandfather clauses.

You can't buy a 2-cycle Vespa, which gets 100mpg, because it's such a
horrible polluter. Think of that as you drive past a refinery or a coal
mining facility.

We need more common sense, not more stringent regulations.

Ron... and yes, I'm from Texas. Deal with it. :-)

"M. J. Freeman" wrote:

>  Are the Emmissions Nazis authorized to shoot on
> sight yet?

 That's next - right after the Liberals confiscate
all the guns.....

"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote:
>
>  It's not falling, but it is definitely dangerously
> polluted due to lack of pollution regulation. ...

Talk about knee jerk! Got a problem? Blame lack of regulation. I'm told
that kind of thinking is symptomatic a mental disease much like "Mad Cow
Disease" thats gotten by eating Yankee Pot Roast made from infected
yankees.

The skys are more polluted now than they were before there were any
regulations and the reason is that there are so many more people that we
are making more total pollution despite regulations that so restrict
each individual that they would have been considered draconian just 50
years ago.

And if anybody doubt's where we're going look at Germany and BMW. BMW
will not allow even factory trained technicians to make simple
adjustments to fuel injectors even when they know they are maladjusted!
And if you don't believe it check out the "zero = zero" flap on the
BMWMOA NG.

Geez, talk about barking up the wrong tree.
I think this must be some kind of phenomenon
where, if there's a problem in our society,
it must be the other guy's fault-   so let's
take away *his* rights and all will be rectified.
In this case, the other guy is the motorcyclists.

Seems to me what this country needs is to
support motorcycling as much as possible.
I don't know about anybody else's commute,
but I can't remember the last time I saw
an SUV or luxury sedan with more than one
person in it. Maybe I am just dreaming, but
I think a hell of a lot more people could
and should ride motorcycles and modify them
'til the cows come home.   They're still not
going to waste fuel like a two and
three-quarter ton GMC Y(P)ukon.





Anthony wrote:
>
> I copied the following from another group's message board.  Thought you
> might like to tale a look at the info yourself.
>
> Texas Motorcycle Rights Association
> Hot Issues
>
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> August 2001
>
> The Texas Legislative session maybe over but the Fed's are still at it.
> Check out what the EPA is planning and what we need to do about it.
>
> BIKERS-DO YOU LOVE YOUR RIDE? HAVE YOU CHANGED ANYTHING ON IT?
>
> THEN YOU MUST READ THIS
>
> Join Operation Wrench or throw away your wrenches. It is up to you.
>
> For those of you who think we are crying the sky is falling; you had better
> take a closer look at what the EPA is proposing for motorcycles; and an even
> closer look at the things you love about your ride. When your bike came off
> the line it lacked a lot of things. A few changes in carb and cams and a
> little customizing made it your bike. That's part of our culture; our bikes
> are our love, our hobby, an extension of our expression, and a part of our
> being as well as a drain on our family budgets. However, if EPA has their
> way it will be a part of our history that we tell our Grandchildren about.
> No longer will the family garage be a place of learning and bonding between
> parents and their kids while they tinker on their bike. Their goal seems to
> be a California like emission, consideration of anti-tampering or
> prohibiting modifications. What you buy off the line is what you get; and oh
> yeah when you need work done on it, it will be back to the manufacturer with
> market prices being whatever they want. There will no longer be basket
> cases.
>
> Just crates from the factory. While you are out there in the wind enjoying
> the performance of your bike or thinking it could use some adjustment; think
> about this and make a personal commitment to help us fight EPA.
>
> Unfortunately this is going to be more of an uphill fight than ever before.
> The EPA has won the first battle DIVIDE AND CONQUER. AMA has decided to try
> to work with EPA and settle for compromises. The Executive Board of Illinois
> Abate and the MRF are committed we are going to stand and fight. We will not
> compromise our bikes and our culture. We know what this fight might cost,
> but what we lack in dollars, we make up for in heart and dedication. So
> Operation Wrench is launched. And it is our intention to toss a monkey
> wrench into the plans of the EPA.
>
> The plan is to start with a large public awareness campaign. It will begin
> with each of you. Talk to every person you ride with. Every rider you come
> across at a stop sign, parking lot or tavern. You're gonna have to care, and
> in turn make them care about what is going to happen. Start a conversation
> with anyone and everyone. Don't assume even that your fellow members of
> Abate or any other club or organization you may belong to has read any
> articles or MRF bulletins. Instead assume that they have no idea of what is
> going on. The EPA is still accepting public comments. We are urging everyone
> to send a postcard stating you oppose the restrictions of proposed RULE
> ANPRM A2000-01 on dirt bikes, ATVs and Motorcycles. Send these cards to:
>
> CHRISTIE TODD WHITMAN
>
> ADMINISTRATOR
>
> ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
>
> 1200 PENNSYLVANIA AVE. N.W.
>
> WASHINGTON DC 20460
>
> If you find a motorcyclist, an aftermarket producer or custom shop who haven
> 't written in, urge them to do so. Suggest they read the public comments
> filed by ABATE of Illinois (abate-il.org) and the Motorcycle Riders
> Foundation (http://www.mrf.org/).
>
> Sometime this fall, EPA will publish a proposed rule. Around the New Year,
> EPA will publish a final rule. In short, action to break the EPA chokehold
> should be in full swing now and through the rest of this year. We must
> recruit an army to protect our freedom.
>
> The emissions from our rides are minimal, less than a lawnmower in fact. The
> EPA should look to us and take note that we have the fuel efficient,
> economical means of transportation that more people should be encouraged to
> use.
>
> If you want to advance our rights and safeguard our lifestyle, the course is
> clear.
>
> Write to aftermarket producers whose products you buy. Tell them about the
> treat to their business and your freedom. Visit custom shops in your area.
> Explain the threat. Urge them to get involved. While you are at these shops
> and bars or any other areas the Motorcycling community frequents; tell them
> we are planning an awareness campaign and ask if they would permit us to put
> up posters and information at their place of business.
>
> Our movement was born in freedom. The Freedom to ride what we want. The
> Freedom to go where we dream. The freedom to wear what we like. If you don't
> act now, with a resolve to fight this battle and the conviction to win, we
> can dream all we want and wear what we like. But our rides will be nothing
> but old photographs.
>
> YOU CAN CHANGE THAT.
>
> MAKE COPIES OF THIS LETTER. Put it up in places that you frequent. Hand them
> to everyone you talk to and tell them to make copies and do the
> same-everywhere!!
>
> ABATE of Illinois has a rightfully earned reputation for getting the job
> done (whatever it takes), because we pull together. It's time for all riders
> and everyone who loves their freedom to pull together-nationwide-to get this
> job done!

OldBiker wrote:
> "Henry H. Hansteen" wrote:

> >  It's not falling, but it is definitely dangerously
> > polluted due to lack of pollution regulation. ...

> The skys are more polluted now than they were before there were any
> regulations and the reason is that there are so many more people that we
> are making more total pollution despite regulations that so restrict
> each individual that they would have been considered draconian just 50
> years ago.

 How exactly do you imagine that emission control systems
on engines restrict your freedom? This should be funny...
 Henry

>
> The skys are more polluted now than they were before there were any
> regulations and the reason is that there are so many more people that we
> are making more total pollution despite regulations that so restrict
> each individual that they would have been considered draconian just 50
> years ago.


Thank you.

If my info is correct (you can look it up), since about 1960,
the population of the world has roughly doubled from *almost*
3 billion to approximately 6 billion.  And that's assuming the
estimates got everybody.  We can't fight that kind of growth
with actions like this.

"M. J. Freeman" wrote:
> Henry H. Hansteen scribed in news:3B7D4C75.F4E3775F@cornell.edu:
> > "M. J. Freeman" wrote:

> >>  Are the Emmissions Nazis authorized to shoot on sight yet?

> >  That's next - right after the Liberals confiscate
> > all the guns.....

> I would like to publicly thank you

 Don't mention it...

>

>
>
> Our movement was born in freedom. The Freedom to ride what we want. The
> Freedom to go where we dream. The freedom to wear what we like. If you don't
> act now, with a resolve to fight this battle and the conviction to win, we
> can dream all we want and wear what we like. But our rides will be nothing
> but old photographs.

A degree of fear sharpens new riders.... sickly Abate uses fear as a club... the
excess of it stupefies them...
Larry L
Fabricator of aftermarket parts...
94 RC45 #2
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/

Nice troll.  A search on groups.google.com turned up quite a lot on
you.  Welcome to my killfile.

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:21:33 -0400, "Henry H. Hansteen"
<hhh3@cornell.edu> wrote:

>to smog. Do you "think" you can simply move to another
>planet when short sighted, selfish, and ignorant behavior
>has made our atmosphere unfit to breathe?

Anthony scribed in news:v79f7.133$q55.159593@nnrp3.sbc.net:

Considering the title, I was expecting some actual information.

Silly me.  I should have known it was going to be just zero-content
ranting and raving.

Anyway, in case you feel the need to try to wade through the legalese:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/largesi.htm

Me, myself, I missed the bit about the jack-booted thugs roaming the
streets and confiscating all our tools, but I'm just a chemist, so I
don't always understand all of the legal implications of lines like:

"We are also interested in opportunities to reduce emissions from highway
motorcycles along with off-road motorcycles. California's emission
standards for highway motorcycles, which are more stringent than federal
standards, are being considered internationally. There may be
opportunities to harmonize with such programs to effectively reduce
emissions nationwide."

Or maybe I was unaware of just how restrictive California's emmisssions
standards are.  Y'all really can't repair your own motorycles?  *boggle*
That must really suck.  Are the Emmissions Nazis authorized to shoot on
sight yet?


'85 VF700S
--
Michael J. Freeman                       (a.k.a., Pi)
mfreemantx@earthlink.net               Cincinnati, OH
"Insanity runs in the family; it practically gallops"
Ellison, H. Thompson, D. Parker, Prince, SRV, Led Zep

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:38:29 -0500, "Anthony" <wb5tty@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>The emissions from our rides are minimal, less than a lawnmower in fact. The
>EPA should look to us and take note that we have the fuel efficient,
>economical means of transportation that more people should be encouraged to
>use.

The gov't should nail those stupid oversized, sub-20 mpg, suburban
tanks called SUV's first (and not just talk about it for political
points).  Hell, throw in big pickups while you're at it.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/largesi/f00046.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/largesi/f00046.htm

Pick whichever format you like better.  The important part is titled:

"Emission Standards for New Land-Based Recreational Engines and
Highway Motorcycles"

Henry H. Hansteen scribed in news:3B7D4C75.F4E3775F@cornell.edu:

> "M. J. Freeman" wrote:
>>  Are the Emmissions Nazis authorized to shoot on sight yet?
>
>  That's next - right after the Liberals confiscate
> all the guns.....

I would like to publicly thank you for taking my comments utterly out of
context and appending your knee-jerk blatherings, so that people may
completely misconstrue what I was saying.

Thank you ever so much.


'85 VF700S
--
Michael J. Freeman                       (a.k.a., Pi)
mfreemantx@earthlink.net               Cincinnati, OH
"Insanity runs in the family; it practically gallops"
Ellison, H. Thompson, D. Parker, Prince, SRV, Led Zep

I saw one go by the other day. Could not help but notice it from 2 blocks
away.

Anyone wear one?

V

"moonshad" <moonshad@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:7Rcf7.25$gJ6.958@nnrp1.sbc.net...
>
> We need more common sense, not more stringent regulations.
>
I agree. We should pass a law REQUIRING more common sense!

"Henry H. Hansteen" wrote:

>  What is it you read that's troubling you, and why does the
> idea of a cleaner burning engine bother you? I pleased and
> impressed with the advancements in performance, economy
> and reliability of newer engines on both bikes and cars.

The idea of a cleaner burning engine doesn't bother me. The idea of more
federal regulations, with no valid scientific claims behind them to back
them up does.

The idea of passing no mod rules that don't let me make my bikes (and
cars) run the way I want them to bothers me. The added cost for what I
see as little or no benefit bothers me.

The linking of pollution controls with better performance, economy, and
dependability with no evidence that these items are related bothers me.

Now, if the motorcycle manufacturers decide to come up with a more
efficient engine design, I would support it. This would of course have
better performance and better mileage, along with less exhaust
particulates, since that is the definition of efficiency. I might even
be willing to pay a little bit extra for it, since I like performance
and better mileage. But for me to support it, it would have to be a
voluntary program OR the government would have to convince me that they
had valid reasons for the legislation, and the authority in the
Constitution to pass it. So far, none of the things mentioned in this
paragraph have come to pass, so I have to oppose the EPA in its current
efforts.

Steve Rothstein

>

>
> >
> > We need more common sense, not more stringent regulations.
> >
> I agree. We should pass a law REQUIRING more common sense!

So common sense should be law??? but so few have it and none think they
lack it... every time I hear the cry for common sense I permit myself to
laugh and wonder... where is the interested  for uncommon sense... which
is common to the widest thinkers???
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:52:00 -0500, "moonshad" <moonshad@swbell.net>
wrote:

>
>"Henry H. Hansteen" <hhh3@cornell.edu> wrote in message
>news:3B7D49F4.784E33EB@cornell.edu...
>
>>  What is it you read that's troubling you, and why does the
>> idea of a cleaner burning engine bother you? I pleased and
>> impressed with the advancements in performance, economy
>> and reliability of newer engines on both bikes and cars.
>>  What is it you're whining about, exactly?
>>  Are you from Texas?
>>  Henry
>
>I think what disturbs me most is the hypocrisy inherent in the proposed
>legislation. Industrial pollution is infinitely more voluminous (and
>damaging to the environment) than that generated by automobiles, which,
>themselves, greatly overshadow motorcycles. Yet, as an ever-tighter noose of
>regulation closes around the motorcycle and automotive industries, major
>industrial polluters go their merry way, spewing whatever they please into
>the environment, protected by waivers and grandfather clauses.
>
  IMHO's The Gummint does not care about solving the pollution
situation they really want more control over us.  Think about it.
They leave industry alone and bother the citizens.  Again they use the
safety issue.  They use it for gun control ,seat belt and helmet laws,
in NY, with the BS no hand held cell phone law and all the other bogus
rules and regulations they thrust upon us.  Yes we fund them with our
never ending supply of tax dollars which gives them the ability to
impose stupid laws on us and in the process the Gummint is taking away
more of our freedom.  They do this stuff while we are all busy or
preoccupied working to support our families. You want to see a fine
example of Gummint control over a city of town?  Check out the housing
for navel personnel and their families at Great lakes navel base in
North Chicago IL.  Friggin communistic!  Get this the speed limit is
20 mph.  The cops right tickets like McDonalds selling hamburgers at
the drive thru.  Proper biker attire if you ride around Great lakes
consists of Steel toed boots, leather jacket, leather gloves, orange
reflective vest, and of course a helmet.  They will pull you over and
make sure you are dressed accordingly.  Oh, did I mention the speed
limit is 20?  They wait right as you enter the area within 25 yards.
So you are going 45mph down RT 137 the you turn right and you got to
apply your brakes immediately and drop to 20 mph or else.  They got 75
bucks out of me already.  Like I said this is a fine example of what
our Gummint is capable of but, on a much smaller scale.  I tell you
what we all better wake up real soon here.

Regards
Mike

I'm all for better emissions on motorcycles and autos (and don't get me started
on SUV "truck" exemptions).  The only way most of the motoheads I know would
back off from destroying their vehicle's mandated emissions levels would be the
threat of legal action (fines, no registration, etc.).  I'm all for this.  I
will fight any attempt to circumvent emissions regulations for motorcycles.  We
are not special.  Why should we be allowed to pollute?  Expression my ass.  More
like shouting "hey, I'm a selfish moron and don't like rules."

Count me in the motorcyclist with a conscience camp, then...

Charles
(note the Bandit is 100% stock and works just fine, TYVM).

--

Charles Soto - Austin, TX *** 1979 KZ650, 1999 GSF1200S, DoD No. "uno"
Free Tibet!*
* With purchase of equal or greater value.  Not available in all stores.
While supplies last.  Void where prohibited by law.  As seen on TV.
(If you can't figure out my email, you should unplug the WebTV and lie down.)

>

>  Like I said this is a fine example of what
> our Gummint is capable of but, on a much smaller scale.  I tell you
> what we all better wake up real soon here.

In the long run our Government is the exact symbol of its people... with their
wisdom and folly... I have to say... like Government... like People...
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/

In article <7Rcf7.25$gJ6.958@nnrp1.sbc.net>, "moonshad" <moonshad@swbell.net>
wrote:

>"Henry H. Hansteen" <hhh3@cornell.edu> wrote in message
>news:3B7D49F4.784E33EB@cornell.edu...
>
>>  What is it you read that's troubling you, and why does the
>> idea of a cleaner burning engine bother you? I pleased and
>> impressed with the advancements in performance, economy
>> and reliability of newer engines on both bikes and cars.
>>  What is it you're whining about, exactly?
>>  Are you from Texas?
>>  Henry
>
>I think what disturbs me most is the hypocrisy inherent in the proposed
>legislation. Industrial pollution is infinitely more voluminous (and
>damaging to the environment) than that generated by automobiles, which,
>themselves, greatly overshadow motorcycles. Yet, as an ever-tighter noose of
>regulation closes around the motorcycle and automotive industries, major
>industrial polluters go their merry way, spewing whatever they please into
>the environment, protected by waivers and grandfather clauses.
>
>You can't buy a 2-cycle Vespa, which gets 100mpg, because it's such a
>horrible polluter. Think of that as you drive past a refinery or a coal
>mining facility.
>
>We need more common sense, not more stringent regulations.
>
>Ron... and yes, I'm from Texas. Deal with it. :-)




You are spot on.  My letter to Christine Todd Whitman will, while stating my
support for stringent emissions regulations for motorcycles, will also point out
how minimal a problem it is versus coal-fired electrical plant "grandfathering"
(in Texas, it's a big problem) and the SUV/truck "exemptions."

Charles

--

Charles Soto - Austin, TX *** 1979 KZ650, 1999 GSF1200S, DoD No. "uno"
Free Tibet!*
* With purchase of equal or greater value.  Not available in all stores.
While supplies last.  Void where prohibited by law.  As seen on TV.
(If you can't figure out my email, you should unplug the WebTV and lie down.)

In article <ur19O2b1ujNndSKz7xSUSx0ASbBR@4ax.com>,
 Michael Fell <mfell2112@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:52:00 -0500, "moonshad" <moonshad@swbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Henry H. Hansteen" <hhh3@cornell.edu> wrote in message
>>news:3B7D49F4.784E33EB@cornell.edu...
>>
>>>  What is it you read that's troubling you, and why does the
>>> idea of a cleaner burning engine bother you? I pleased and
>>> impressed with the advancements in performance, economy
>>> and reliability of newer engines on both bikes and cars.
>>>  What is it you're whining about, exactly?
>>>  Are you from Texas?
>>>  Henry
>>
>>I think what disturbs me most is the hypocrisy inherent in the proposed
>>legislation. Industrial pollution is infinitely more voluminous (and
>>damaging to the environment) than that generated by automobiles, which,
>>themselves, greatly overshadow motorcycles. Yet, as an ever-tighter noose of
>>regulation closes around the motorcycle and automotive industries, major
>>industrial polluters go their merry way, spewing whatever they please into
>>the environment, protected by waivers and grandfather clauses.
>>
>  IMHO's The Gummint does not care about solving the pollution
>situation they really want more control over us.  Think about it.
>They leave industry alone and bother the citizens.  Again they use the
>safety issue.  They use it for gun control ,seat belt and helmet laws,
>in NY, with the BS no hand held cell phone law and all the other bogus
>rules and regulations they thrust upon us.  Yes we fund them with our
>never ending supply of tax dollars which gives them the ability to
>impose stupid laws on us and in the process the Gummint is taking away
>more of our freedom.  They do this stuff while we are all busy or
>preoccupied working to support our families. You want to see a fine
>example of Gummint control over a city of town?  Check out the housing
>for navel personnel and their families at Great lakes navel base in
>North Chicago IL.  Friggin communistic!  Get this the speed limit is
>20 mph.  The cops right tickets like McDonalds selling hamburgers at
>the drive thru.  Proper biker attire if you ride around Great lakes
>consists of Steel toed boots, leather jacket, leather gloves, orange
>reflective vest, and of course a helmet.  They will pull you over and
>make sure you are dressed accordingly.  Oh, did I mention the speed
>limit is 20?  They wait right as you enter the area within 25 yards.
>So you are going 45mph down RT 137 the you turn right and you got to
>apply your brakes immediately and drop to 20 mph or else.  They got 75
>bucks out of me already.  Like I said this is a fine example of what
>our Gummint is capable of but, on a much smaller scale.  I tell you
>what we all better wake up real soon here.
>
>Regards
>Mike



Duh!  Quit supporting those fucking ReplubliCrats.  They are corporate whores,
the lot.

But what does Communism have to do with speed limits on a "navel" base?  Last
time I checked, Communism was an economic system...

Charles

--

Charles Soto - Austin, TX *** 1979 KZ650, 1999 GSF1200S, DoD No. "uno"
Free Tibet!*
* With purchase of equal or greater value.  Not available in all stores.
While supplies last.  Void where prohibited by law.  As seen on TV.
(If you can't figure out my email, you should unplug the WebTV and lie down.)

In article <9lkgtn$gh7$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Vincerama"
<nosey@fakeemail.com> wrote:

> I saw one go by the other day. Could not help but notice it from 2
> blocks away.
>
> Anyone wear one?

No, but I often dye my hair and beard day-glo colors (red, yellow and
light-blue are my favorites).  I got a lot of weird looks from the
peaople at work though...  hmmm.

Bill

>
> V
>
>


--

http://members.home.com/wcattell
**************************************************************
Park not thy Harley in the darkness of thine garage, that it
may collect dust for want of being oft ridden. Ride thy Harley
with thy brethren, and rejoice in the spirit of the road.
**************************************************************

Bobo wrote:
>
> "moonshad" <moonshad@swbell.net> wrote in message
> news:7Rcf7.25$gJ6.958@nnrp1.sbc.net...
> >
> > We need more common sense, not more stringent regulations.
> >
> I agree. We should pass a law REQUIRING more common sense!

Better yet, pass a law requiring more laws be passed instead of
enforcing the ones already in place.
--
Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas
Iron Butt Association Member #3000
Right Rev. Royal Bellhop CM #0001
DoD #2021; onethumb at swbell dot net

"Paranoia is a disease unto itself.  And, may I add,
the person standing next to you may not be who they
appear to be. So take precautions." - Primus

In article <9lkgtn$gh7$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, nosey@fakeemail.com
says...
> I saw one go by the other day. Could not help but notice it from 2 blocks
> away.
>
> Anyone wear one?

I'm due for a new helmet, and I WANT one.  Problem is that it's an HJC
LT-12(?) and is no longer in manufacture in that colour.  You can still
get it in a 3/4 helmet, but I want a full face.

---
Cam
'89 RZ 350

In article <MPG.15e82b28b0fecd4b9898a4@news.vc.shawcable.net>,
 Cam Penner <Cam.Penner@PLEASEDONTSPAMgoldmedalsystems.com> wrote:

>In article <9lkgtn$gh7$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, nosey@fakeemail.com
>says...
>> I saw one go by the other day. Could not help but notice it from 2 blocks
>> away.
>>
>> Anyone wear one?
>
>I'm due for a new helmet, and I WANT one.  Problem is that it's an HJC
>LT-12(?) and is no longer in manufacture in that colour.  You can still
>get it in a 3/4 helmet, but I want a full face.
>
>---
>Cam
>'89 RZ 350



Shoei makes Day-Glo(tm) Orange full-face lids.  Thought about getting one, but
it would class with my teeth...

Charles

--

Charles Soto - Austin, TX *** 1979 KZ650, 1999 GSF1200S, DoD No. "uno"
Free Tibet!*
* With purchase of equal or greater value.  Not available in all stores.
While supplies last.  Void where prohibited by law.  As seen on TV.
(If you can't figure out my email, you should unplug the WebTV and lie down.)

Henry H. Hansteen wrote in message <3B7D49F4.784E33EB@cornell.edu>...
>Buddy Love wrote:
>
>> http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/largesi/f00046.pdf
>> http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/largesi/f00046.htm
>>
>> Pick whichever format you like better.  The important part is titled:
>>
>> "Emission Standards for New Land-Based Recreational Engines and
>> Highway Motorcycles"
>
> What is it you read that's troubling you, and why does the
>idea of a cleaner burning engine bother you? I pleased and
>impressed with the advancements in performance, economy
>and reliability of newer engines on both bikes and cars.
> What is it you're whining about, exactly?
> Are you from Texas?
> Henry


Henry, I am from California.  While this won't affect you, as the owner of a
late-model road-only motorcycle in a state which doesn't have smog checks,
it has affected us in California, and it's certainly reasonable to predict
some negative impacts.

While the state of California has, as far as I know, not confiscated any
motor vehicles for smog violations, they have taken actions which have the
same effect.  For cars, you must have a smog check to register the car every
two years.  Should you fail, you may be identified as a 'gross polluter' and
be subject to more frequent and more expensive smog testing, even if you
eventually pass the original smog check.  So the first problem this can
present if adopted nationally is that older bikes will become much more
expensive to operate.  This is, in effect a regressive tax on the
impecunious motorcyclist.

The situation for off-road motorcycles can be even more draconian.  Unless
you own ten acres in unpopulated areas, there are few places to ride
off-road motorcycles outside of state and Federal parks.  California
requires registration of off-road bikes.  Basically you can't ride without a
green sticker or red sticker.  The eventual result of this will be smog
tests for off-road bikes, and eventual denial of an off-road sticker to
non-complying bikes, mostly two-strokes.  So, your choices will be to either
buy a new four-stroke dirt bike, or stop riding off-road.  This means that
many excellent older dirt bikes - Hodaka, Bultaco, and numerous others -
will be denied the ability to be ridden.

Of course, there are no jack-booted thugs in this scenario.  But you wind up
being denied the ability to ride your dirt bike.  Or you spend lots of money
for a new bike.

Everybody is happy with this scenario.  The bike manufacturers get to sell
lots of new bikes.  The bureaucrats have new regulations and taxes.
Environmentalists get the warm glow of denying enjoyment to those evil
stereotyped motorcyclists.  The only people who might be unhappy are those
who have to either give up motorcycle riding, or who are forced to pay
thousands of dollars for a four-stroke dirt bike.

This has a direct impact on me.  My son is 13 years old.  It's time (past
time) to get him a motorcycle, off-road.  It's time for him to start having
something to learn a little bit about mechanics.  The cheapest choices are
all older two-stroke dirt bikes.  Used XR100s are all several hundred
dollars more.  New XR100s are about $2200.  So, I either have to forego
doing this with my son, or face the bike being illegal in two or three
years.

It's easy for you to dismiss this topic -- it's not costing you any money.

Concern for the environment is certainly appropriate.  But I think in this
case that the EPA thinks they have an easy target in motorcyclists.  It's
time to re-educate them.

Hank Murphy
1999 Triumph Tiger "Full Moon"
[with a catalyst!]
DoD#Ultra5

Of course, this won't affect any one in

>

"Vincerama" <nosey@fakeemail.com> wrote in message
news:9lkgtn$gh7$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> I saw one go by the other day. Could not help but notice it from 2 blocks
> away.
>
> Anyone wear one?


No.."but" You should be able to find an appropriate shade of "DAYGLO-ORANGE"
at your local wallyworld...I will be using testor's (blue) over silver
paint.8^)

Keith,s
E.O.O. rep #1 Pacific region, KotBTC

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:20:00 GMT, Hank Murphy wrote:
> Henry H. Hansteen wrote in message <3B7D49F4.784E33EB@cornell.edu>...
>>
>> What is it you read that's troubling you, and why does the
>>idea of a cleaner burning engine bother you? I pleased and
>>impressed with the advancements in performance, economy
>>and reliability of newer engines on both bikes and cars.
>> What is it you're whining about, exactly?
>
> Henry, I am from California.  While this won't affect you, as the owner of a
> late-model road-only motorcycle in a state which doesn't have smog checks,
> it has affected us in California, and it's certainly reasonable to predict
> some negative impacts.

Warning!! Educational exercise. Go read a 'logical fallacies' web
site and try to name the logical arguments in this whole thread.

---------

Henry appears to have swallowed what the regulatory industry calls
a 'chocolate covered turd'. It looks sweet and the chocolate coating
has, apparently for Henry, covered up whatever a turd tastes like.

The important questions here are why has the regulatory industry
managed to convince Henry that what they are actually concerned
about is 'safety', and how have they used Henry's lack of sophistication
with data use and regulatory pronouncements against him?

History.

Regulatory agencies were first created to try to control large
industry and business interests from creating 'unsafe' conditions
for citizens who were too unsophisticated about life to protect
themselves. These agencies reaped great power from those who either
couldn't or refused to educate themselves about personal security
and safety issues.

At first, the business interests were a lot like us in this war
over personal sovereignty, and couldn't believe that the Constitution
could be so blantantly walked over. But they soon discovered that
public businesses *have no implicit rights* in the U.S., and the
'feel good' legislation that was sweeping the nation was too large
to fight, so they stepped back to see what could be done about it.

They discovered a very important lesson:

 Government agencies are typically grossly underfunded and unable
 to perform the activities they are called upon to perform.

What they realized was that here was a cash cow tied to a feeding
trough out in the middle of nowhere. They could get away whith
almost anything in the name of 'public safety', make millions off
of it, and still be able to point blame at the government agency
if anything went awry. (red-light cameras, anyone?)

In short, they discovered in regulatory agencies the ability to
receive soverign-blessed permission to get away (often literally)
with murder.

Now, these business interests work in concert with regulatory
agencies (regulatory personnel often being hired to help grease
their agendas) to turn the regulatory finger from pointing at them
to pointing at us. They work to set up sophisticated data channels
in order to provide research and statistical data to the regulatory
agencies, taking great care to make sure that they aren't implicated
in the process.  (It is obvious that someone on Condit's legal team
understood this process well when you see how his contracting a
company to provide lie-detector results for him short-circuited
the State's assertion that lie-detector results cannot be compromised.)

And the regulatory agencies are happy to receive this data that
increases their power/money-base that they are in turn willing to
share with those businesses.

They have turned the promise of protecting 'the innocent' into a
huge cash-cow that, incidentally protects them and assaults us.

These businesses did this by realizing that they had to corporitize
the long-term resources necessary to deflect blame away from
themselves and onto someone else: private citizens.  And they had
to learn how to be sophisticted users of data in order to do this.

Why private citizens? Because, as Henry shows, private citizens
are typically the most unsophisticated of data users, and the most
vulnerable. We don't have a clue as to what hit us, even after the
assault vehicle has left the premises.

And we did it to ourselves, by agreeing to assist in assaulting
someone else. We believed that there is always safety in numbers,
and are now discovering that we were mistaken.

And now we have people like Henry, who not only have swallowed all
of his chocolate-covered turds, but insist that all of the rest of
us be required to eat ours also.

Michael Fell wrote:

>   IMHO's The Gummint does not care about solving the pollution
> situation they really want more control over us.

 So *that's* the purpose of a catalytic converter....

> Think about it.

 You first....

Larry xlax Lovisone wrote:

> In the long run our Government is the exact symbol of its people...

 If little w is an exact symbol of U.S. citizens, we're screwed.
 Big time....

In article <3B81008F.14145680@cornell.edu>,
 "Henry H. Hansteen" <hhh3@cornell.edu> wrote:

>Michael Fell wrote:
>
>>   IMHO's The Gummint does not care about solving the pollution
>> situation they really want more control over us.
>
> So *that's* the purpose of a catalytic converter....

That, and fluoridation.  I don't want to tell you what it's done to my
"vitality..."


>> Think about it.
>
> You first....

Duh...  Can I try?

Charles

--

Charles Soto - Austin, TX *** 1979 KZ650, 1999 GSF1200S, DoD No. "uno"
Free Tibet!*
* With purchase of equal or greater value.  Not available in all stores.
While supplies last.  Void where prohibited by law.  As seen on TV.
(If you can't figure out my email, you should unplug the WebTV and lie down.)