🚀 go-pugleaf

On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:
> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!
>
> Death of elderly neighbour made them redundant. The suppliers seem to
> operate a *no trade in* business model and there are many available on E
> bay etc.
>
> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce the
>    number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.
>
> Now to sort out why the older one doesn't work:-)

If they're the same model can you swap the battery from the working one
over to the one which doesn't? It seems the simplest thing to try first.

--
Jeff

On 08/07/2025 13:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:
>> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
>> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!
>>
>> Death of elderly neighbour made them redundant. The suppliers seem to
>> operate a *no trade in* business model and there are many available on E
>> bay etc.
>>
>> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce the
>>    number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.
>>
>> Now to sort out why the older one doesn't work:-)
>
> If they're the same model can you swap the battery from the working one
> over to the one which doesn't? It seems the simplest thing to try first.

Good plan.

I'm still harvesting Ragwort so the scooter job is on hold. I'm curious
to learn if the group have direct experience.

One job is going to be levelling the access to the bridleway and
lubricating the gate latch. Deemed unnecessary while it was just
hindering our battery powered cyclists:-)
>

Timatmarford <tim@marford.uk.com> wrote:
> On 08/07/2025 13:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
> > On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:
> >> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
> >> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!
> >>
> >> Death of elderly neighbour made them redundant. The suppliers seem to
> >> operate a *no trade in* business model and there are many available on E
> >> bay etc.
> >>
> >> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce the
> >>    number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.
> >>
> >> Now to sort out why the older one doesn't work:-)
> >
> > If they're the same model can you swap the battery from the working one
> > over to the one which doesn't? It seems the simplest thing to try first.
>
> Good plan.
>
> I'm still harvesting Ragwort so the scooter job is on hold. I'm curious
> to learn if the group have direct experience.

No specific experience, but a bit with cheap Chinese e-bikes which often use
the same part ecosystem.  They're probably fairly simple things - battery
(+BMS if lithium) - controller - motor.

Basic stuff:

1.  Check battery volts.  If low charge it, if it won't charge battery or
charger are bad.  Check for internal fusing.

2. Check volts get to the controller.  If not, check fuses, connections,
etc.

3.  Check motor resistance.  If there's two wires, it's a DC brushed motor.
Three wires = three phase.  Six wires = brushless DC: three phase plus three
Hall sensors (can usually tell the Hall sensor wires as they're slimmer than
the motor wires).  The motor wires should have a similar number of ohms
between each one (not milliohms or kilohms).

4.  Check the brakes.  The brake levers will typically have switches which
close when the brake is pressed - this should inhibit the motor, so a stuck
brake lever would likely mean no drive.

5.  Check the throttle.  Often they're a simple pot with 0V, 5V and a wiper.
Check the wiper volts changes from (near) 0V to (near) 5V as you turn the
throttle.

6.  Check signals coming out of the controller.  Check volts between
different pairs as you turn up the throttle.  If there are Hall sensors, a
failed sensor could prevent motor drive - may be able to probe them with a
multimeter but better to scope them.  If there's a display, look for error
messages or lights.

7. Check for voltage sag as power is applied.  Could mean a bad battery or
poor wiring.

Theo

On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:
> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!
>
> Death of elderly neighbour made them redundant. The suppliers seem to
> operate a *no trade in* business model and there are many available on E
> bay etc.
>
> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce the
>   number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.
>
> Now to sort out why the older one doesn't work:-)

Would that be you, or the dinner lady ?? :-)

On 08/07/2025 23:19, Theo wrote:
> Timatmarford <tim@marford.uk.com> wrote:
>> On 08/07/2025 13:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:
>>>> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
>>>> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!
>>>>
>>>> Death of elderly neighbour made them redundant. The suppliers seem to
>>>> operate a *no trade in* business model and there are many available on E
>>>> bay etc.
>>>>
>>>> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce the
>>>>     number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.
>>>>
>>>> Now to sort out why the older one doesn't work:-)
>>>
>>> If they're the same model can you swap the battery from the working one
>>> over to the one which doesn't? It seems the simplest thing to try first.
>>
>> Good plan.
>>
>> I'm still harvesting Ragwort so the scooter job is on hold. I'm curious
>> to learn if the group have direct experience.
>
> No specific experience, but a bit with cheap Chinese e-bikes which often use
> the same part ecosystem.  They're probably fairly simple things - battery
> (+BMS if lithium) - controller - motor.
>
> Basic stuff:
>
> 1.  Check battery volts.  If low charge it, if it won't charge battery or
> charger are bad.  Check for internal fusing.
>
> 2. Check volts get to the controller.  If not, check fuses, connections,
> etc.
>
> 3.  Check motor resistance.  If there's two wires, it's a DC brushed motor.
> Three wires = three phase.  Six wires = brushless DC: three phase plus three
> Hall sensors (can usually tell the Hall sensor wires as they're slimmer than
> the motor wires).  The motor wires should have a similar number of ohms
> between each one (not milliohms or kilohms).
>
> 4.  Check the brakes.  The brake levers will typically have switches which
> close when the brake is pressed - this should inhibit the motor, so a stuck
> brake lever would likely mean no drive.
>
> 5.  Check the throttle.  Often they're a simple pot with 0V, 5V and a wiper.
> Check the wiper volts changes from (near) 0V to (near) 5V as you turn the
> throttle.
>
> 6.  Check signals coming out of the controller.  Check volts between
> different pairs as you turn up the throttle.  If there are Hall sensors, a
> failed sensor could prevent motor drive - may be able to probe them with a
> multimeter but better to scope them.  If there's a display, look for error
> messages or lights.
>
> 7. Check for voltage sag as power is applied.  Could mean a bad battery or
> poor wiring.

Thanks Theo. They have a pair of 12V batteries fitted. Not looked
further yet but E bay offers lead acid batteries as replacements.

I'll try swapping working ones for old as suggested and see if that
sorts anything.

Not top of the jobs list!
>
> Theo

On 08/07/2025 18:16, Timatmarford wrote:

>> On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:
>>> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
>>> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!
>>>
>>> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce the
>>>    number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.

"You can only drive a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair if one of the
following applies:
     you have trouble walking because of an injury, physical disability or
medical condition" ...

  https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules

>
> One job is going to be levelling the access to the bridleway and
> lubricating the gate latch. Deemed unnecessary while it was just hindering
> our battery powered cyclists:-)

"Mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs in class 2 and 3 can be used:
     on pavements and other pedestrian areas
     on cycle tracks"

https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules/classes

On 09/07/2025 23:46, Nick Finnigan wrote:
> On 08/07/2025 18:16, Timatmarford wrote:
>
>>> On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:
>>>> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
>>>> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!
>>>>
>>>> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce
>>>> the
>>>>    number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.
>
> "You can only drive a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair if one of
> the following applies:
>      you have trouble walking because of an injury, physical disability
> or medical condition" ...
>
>   https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules

I had seen that. I feel an 80 year old with a metal knee might comply.
It doesn't appear to call for certification. Highway use would be
limited to road crossings.
>
>>
>> One job is going to be levelling the access to the bridleway and
>> lubricating the gate latch. Deemed unnecessary while it was just
>> hindering our battery powered cyclists:-)
>
> "Mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs in class 2 and 3 can be used:
>      on pavements and other pedestrian areas
>      on cycle tracks"
>
> https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules/classes

I think they meet the requirements for class 3. Up to 8mph.
>
>

Timatmarford <tim@marford.uk.com> wrote:
> On 09/07/2025 23:46, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>> On 08/07/2025 18:16, Timatmarford wrote:
>>>> On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:

>>>>> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
>>>>> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!

>>>>> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce
>>>>> the
>>>>>    number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.

>> "You can only drive a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair if one of
>> the following applies:
>>     you have trouble walking because of an injury, physical disability
>> or medical condition" ...

>>  https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules

> I had seen that. I feel an 80 year old with a metal knee might comply.
> It doesn't appear to call for certification. Highway use would be
> limited to road crossings.

>>> One job is going to be levelling the access to the bridleway and
>>> lubricating the gate latch. Deemed unnecessary while it was just
>>> hindering our battery powered cyclists:-)
>>
>> "Mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs in class 2 and 3 can be used:
>>     on pavements and other pedestrian areas
>>     on cycle tracks"

>> https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules/classes

> I think they meet the requirements for class 3. Up to 8mph.

From that same link…

Quote:
Vehicle tax, registration and insurance

Mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs in ‘class 3’ or not in a class
must be registered with DVLA.

You do not need to pay vehicle tax if your vehicle is registered with DVLA
as a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair.

You may also need to insure your mobility scooter or powered wheelchair,
depending on its weight.
Unquote

--
Spike

On 08/07/2025 23:19, Theo wrote:
> Timatmarford <tim@marford.uk.com> wrote:
>> On 08/07/2025 13:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:
>>>> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
>>>> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!
>>>>
>>>> Death of elderly neighbour made them redundant. The suppliers seem to
>>>> operate a *no trade in* business model and there are many available on E
>>>> bay etc.
>>>>
>>>> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce the
>>>>     number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.
>>>>
>>>> Now to sort out why the older one doesn't work:-)
>>>
>>> If they're the same model can you swap the battery from the working one
>>> over to the one which doesn't? It seems the simplest thing to try first.
>>
>> Good plan.
>>
>> I'm still harvesting Ragwort so the scooter job is on hold. I'm curious
>> to learn if the group have direct experience.
>
> No specific experience, but a bit with cheap Chinese e-bikes which often use
> the same part ecosystem.  They're probably fairly simple things - battery
> (+BMS if lithium) - controller - motor.
>
> Basic stuff:
>
> 1.  Check battery volts.  If low charge it, if it won't charge battery or
> charger are bad.  Check for internal fusing.
>
> 2. Check volts get to the controller.  If not, check fuses, connections,
> etc.
>
> 3.  Check motor resistance.  If there's two wires, it's a DC brushed motor.
> Three wires = three phase.  Six wires = brushless DC: three phase plus three
> Hall sensors (can usually tell the Hall sensor wires as they're slimmer than
> the motor wires).  The motor wires should have a similar number of ohms
> between each one (not milliohms or kilohms).
>
> 4.  Check the brakes.  The brake levers will typically have switches which
> close when the brake is pressed - this should inhibit the motor, so a stuck
> brake lever would likely mean no drive.
>
> 5.  Check the throttle.  Often they're a simple pot with 0V, 5V and a wiper.
> Check the wiper volts changes from (near) 0V to (near) 5V as you turn the
> throttle.
>
> 6.  Check signals coming out of the controller.  Check volts between
> different pairs as you turn up the throttle.  If there are Hall sensors, a
> failed sensor could prevent motor drive - may be able to probe them with a
> multimeter but better to scope them.  If there's a display, look for error
> messages or lights.
>
> 7. Check for voltage sag as power is applied.  Could mean a bad battery or
> poor wiring.

Batteries seem OK although one was discharged.

Symptoms... all operator controls: lights, indicators, horn work OK.

Attempting forward /reverse movement brings up a faint (my hearing)
alarm tone and no movement.

Big strip-out for further investigation so not a high priority.

On 10/07/2025 12:08, Timatmarford wrote:
> On 09/07/2025 23:46, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>> On 08/07/2025 18:16, Timatmarford wrote:
>>
>>>> On 08/07/2025 12:29, Timatmarford wrote:
>>>>> While the rest of the world is adopting battery powered cars, I have
>>>>> purchased (second hand) 2 mobility scooters!
>>>>>
>>>>> Walking is not currently a problem for either of us but might reduce the
>>>>>    number of short vehicle journeys to the village shops.
>>
>> "You can only drive a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair if one of
>> the following applies:
>>      you have trouble walking because of an injury, physical disability
>> or medical condition" ...
>>
>>   https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules
>
> I had seen that. I feel an 80 year old with a metal knee might comply. It
> doesn't appear to call for certification. Highway use would be limited to
> road crossings.
>>
>>>
>>> One job is going to be levelling the access to the bridleway and
>>> lubricating the gate latch. Deemed unnecessary while it was just
>>> hindering our battery powered cyclists:-)
>>
>> "Mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs in class 2 and 3 can be used:
>>      on pavements and other pedestrian areas
>>      on cycle tracks"
>>
>> https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules/classes
>
> I think they meet the requirements for class 3. Up to 8mph.

  The actual legislation does specify bridleway as well, and does not
require the physical disability to give trouble walking.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1970/44/section/20