🚀 go-pugleaf

On 31/05/2025 14:07, furmity wrote:
> Reading an email from Bennets, they had an article written by a bike
> trainer.  His advice on emergency stops was to pull in the clutch
> immediately.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> When I did my (teaching) CBT course it was drummed into me, to drum into
> them, that the clutch was the last thing that gets pulled in. Stalling
> is fine.  I was told that in a Mod1 test pulling in the clutch too early
> risked losing 'points'.  Rationale was a free rotating rear wheel with
> the weight over the front and some braking on the rear risked being
> locked up (non-ABS bikes).
>
> This all made sense to me and was pretty much the way I ride, if I need
> to brake hard it's shut throttle, front brake, rear brake with clutch
> out then clutch in just as I come to a stop.
>
> But the advice from the trainer in the article was to pull the clutch in
> early 'in case you've got the throttle open'...
>
> This is bullshit, right?

I was also taught clutch in late - you get engine braking as well as
brakes plus the inherent anti-lock effect.

I suppose there is an argument that modern bikes have ABS, so the engine
braking theory doesn't always apply.

As for the throttle open theory... well, in a panic one might grab the
lever without closing the throttle fully, but it'd be a bit odd seeing
as you effectively have to close it to reach the lever. Could depend on
how the lever is positioned, I suppose.

Conclusion: It depends, but probably makes slight sense on ABS-equipped
bikes.

--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip

On 31/05/2025 14:07, furmity wrote:
> Reading an email from Bennets, they had an article written by a bike
> trainer.  His advice on emergency stops was to pull in the clutch
> immediately.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> When I did my (teaching) CBT course it was drummed into me, to drum into
> them, that the clutch was the last thing that gets pulled in. Stalling
> is fine.  I was told that in a Mod1 test pulling in the clutch too early
> risked losing 'points'.  Rationale was a free rotating rear wheel with
> the weight over the front and some braking on the rear risked being
> locked up (non-ABS bikes).
>
> This all made sense to me and was pretty much the way I ride, if I need
> to brake hard it's shut throttle, front brake, rear brake with clutch
> out then clutch in just as I come to a stop.
>
> But the advice from the trainer in the article was to pull the clutch in
> early 'in case you've got the throttle open'...
>
> This is bullshit, right?

Normally the police motorcycle roadcraft manual is where I would look
for the absolute "right" way to do stuff.

My printed copy is rather old, I found a 1996 version online and it
doesn't mention how/when the clutch should be used at all when emergency
braking. It does mention using engine braking when the grip levels are low.

I'm not even sure what I do now. On a hillclimb I don't think I use the
back brake at all, if I'm braking hard enough the rear will be very
light/in the air anyway. On the road, I *think* I'd pull the clutch in
pretty early, but I'm actually not sure.

--
/Simon

Simon Wilson <siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 31/05/2025 14:07, furmity wrote:
>>His advice on emergency stops was to pull in the clutch
>> immediately.
>>
>> Thoughts?

>>
>> This is bullshit, right?
>
> Normally the police motorcycle roadcraft manual is where I would look
> for the absolute "right" way to do stuff.
>
> My printed copy is rather old, I found a 1996 version online and it
> doesn't mention how/when the clutch should be used at all when emergency
> braking. It does mention using engine braking when the grip levels are low.
>
> I'm not even sure what I do now. On a hillclimb I don't think I use the
> back brake at all, if I'm braking hard enough the rear will be very
> light/in the air anyway. On the road, I *think* I'd pull the clutch in
> pretty early, but I'm actually not sure.
>

I’ve not had to do a proper emergency stop for a long time but my
recollection is that the fine details of clutch control were far from my
mind, though I do recall doing one on my SV650 with the rear wheel in the
air so it was fairly academic.

On Sat, 31 May 2025 19:31:39 +0100, Simon Wilson
<siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 31/05/2025 14:07, furmity wrote:
>> Reading an email from Bennets, they had an article written by a bike
>> trainer.  His advice on emergency stops was to pull in the clutch
>> immediately.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> When I did my (teaching) CBT course it was drummed into me, to drum into
>> them, that the clutch was the last thing that gets pulled in. Stalling
>> is fine.  I was told that in a Mod1 test pulling in the clutch too early
>> risked losing 'points'.  Rationale was a free rotating rear wheel with
>> the weight over the front and some braking on the rear risked being
>> locked up (non-ABS bikes).
>>
>> This all made sense to me and was pretty much the way I ride, if I need
>> to brake hard it's shut throttle, front brake, rear brake with clutch
>> out then clutch in just as I come to a stop.
>>
>> But the advice from the trainer in the article was to pull the clutch in
>> early 'in case you've got the throttle open'...
>>
>> This is bullshit, right?
>
>Normally the police motorcycle roadcraft manual is where I would look
>for the absolute "right" way to do stuff.
>
>My printed copy is rather old, I found a 1996 version online and it
>doesn't mention how/when the clutch should be used at all when emergency
>braking. It does mention using engine braking when the grip levels are low.

The latest version says the same.

--
Colin Irvine
R1250RS

On 31/05/2025 14:07, furmity wrote:
> Reading an email from Bennets, they had an article written by a bike
> trainer.  His advice on emergency stops was to pull in the clutch
> immediately.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> When I did my (teaching) CBT course it was drummed into me, to drum into
> them, that the clutch was the last thing that gets pulled in. Stalling
> is fine.  I was told that in a Mod1 test pulling in the clutch too early
> risked losing 'points'.  Rationale was a free rotating rear wheel with
> the weight over the front and some braking on the rear risked being
> locked up (non-ABS bikes).
>
> This all made sense to me and was pretty much the way I ride, if I need
> to brake hard it's shut throttle, front brake, rear brake with clutch
> out then clutch in just as I come to a stop.
>
> But the advice from the trainer in the article was to pull the clutch in
> early 'in case you've got the throttle open'...
>
> This is bullshit, right?

Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
straight away.

I failed my 1st test by not stopping quick enough.
On my 2nd I locked up the rear, and that was accepted.



--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 20:58:07 +0000, YTC#1 wrote:

<snip>

> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
> straight away.
>
> I failed my 1st test by not stopping quick enough.
> On my 2nd I locked up the rear, and that was accepted.

Taught to ride a bike in the early 80s?

Blimey.  I thought you just turned up to the test having read the
highway code to learn a few roadsigns.

On 27/06/2025 21:58, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 31/05/2025 14:07, furmity wrote:
>> Reading an email from Bennets, they had an article written by a bike
>> trainer.  His advice on emergency stops was to pull in the clutch
>> immediately.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> When I did my (teaching) CBT course it was drummed into me, to drum into
>> them, that the clutch was the last thing that gets pulled in. Stalling
>> is fine.  I was told that in a Mod1 test pulling in the clutch too early
>> risked losing 'points'.  Rationale was a free rotating rear wheel with
>> the weight over the front and some braking on the rear risked being
>> locked up (non-ABS bikes).
>>
>> This all made sense to me and was pretty much the way I ride, if I need
>> to brake hard it's shut throttle, front brake, rear brake with clutch
>> out then clutch in just as I come to a stop.
>>
>> But the advice from the trainer in the article was to pull the clutch in
>> early 'in case you've got the throttle open'...
>>
>> This is bullshit, right?
>
> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
> straight away.
>
> I failed my 1st test by not stopping quick enough.
> On my 2nd I locked up the rear, and that was accepted.
>
>
>
I seem to remember locking the back wheel was ok as long as you
'remained in control'? [1]

Chris
[1] = Didn't fall off?
--
The Deuchars  BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550T
https://www.Deuchars.org.uk

furmity <no@email.com> wrote in news:ab65145510766c25bab9156bf2085667
@www.novabbs.com:

> On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 20:58:07 +0000, YTC#1 wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
>> straight away.
>>
>> I failed my 1st test by not stopping quick enough.
>> On my 2nd I locked up the rear, and that was accepted.
>
> Taught to ride a bike in the early 80s?
>
> Blimey.  I thought you just turned up to the test having read the
> highway code to learn a few roadsigns.

the Star training scheme was a thing in the early 80s. One of my flatmates
at Essex Uni[1] was an instructor and rode some sort of large Kawasaki. I
think he was from near South London as he mentioned living near where Bolan
headbutted a tree.


[1] 1982/3 dropped out due to being a drunken stoner.

On 30/06/2025 11:41, furmity wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 20:58:07 +0000, YTC#1 wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
>> straight away.
>>
>> I failed my 1st test by not stopping quick enough.
>> On my 2nd I locked up the rear, and that was accepted.
>
> Taught to ride a bike in the early 80s?
>
> Blimey.  I thought you just turned up to the test having read the
> highway code to learn a few roadsigns.

That's how I did it (02/12/80).

On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 10:41:20 +0000, furmity <no@email.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 20:58:07 +0000, YTC#1 wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
>> straight away.

>Taught to ride a bike in the early 80s?
>
>Blimey.  I thought you just turned up to the test having read the
>highway code to learn a few roadsigns.

My parents insisted, in 1979, that I do one of the voluntary things
that the police used to run. So I was 'taught' too
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 30/06/2025 12:40, wessie wrote:

>
> the Star training scheme was a thing in the early 80s.
>


I was a star rider instructor 1977-ish for a couple of years or so.

--
/Simon

On 30/06/2025 11:08, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
> On 27/06/2025 21:58, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 31/05/2025 14:07, furmity wrote:
>>> Reading an email from Bennets, they had an article written by a bike
>>> trainer.  His advice on emergency stops was to pull in the clutch
>>> immediately.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> When I did my (teaching) CBT course it was drummed into me, to drum into
>>> them, that the clutch was the last thing that gets pulled in. Stalling
>>> is fine.  I was told that in a Mod1 test pulling in the clutch too early
>>> risked losing 'points'.  Rationale was a free rotating rear wheel with
>>> the weight over the front and some braking on the rear risked being
>>> locked up (non-ABS bikes).
>>>
>>> This all made sense to me and was pretty much the way I ride, if I need
>>> to brake hard it's shut throttle, front brake, rear brake with clutch
>>> out then clutch in just as I come to a stop.
>>>
>>> But the advice from the trainer in the article was to pull the clutch in
>>> early 'in case you've got the throttle open'...
>>>
>>> This is bullshit, right?
>>
>> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
>> straight away.
>>
>> I failed my 1st test by not stopping quick enough.
>> On my 2nd I locked up the rear, and that was accepted.
>>
>>
>>
> I seem to remember locking the back wheel was ok as long as you
> 'remained in control'? [1]
>

> Chris
> [1] = Didn't fall off?

I did (lock up), I didn't (fall off), I remained in control :-)

Performed on my sisters GP100U



--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 30/06/2025 11:41, furmity wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 20:58:07 +0000, YTC#1 wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
>> straight away.
>>
>> I failed my 1st test by not stopping quick enough.
>> On my 2nd I locked up the rear, and that was accepted.
>
> Taught to ride a bike in the early 80s?
>
> Blimey.  I thought you just turned up to the test having read the
> highway code to learn a few roadsigns.

Figure of 8 test.
But I then had to do the original CBT (council funded) before I could
get another date.

The council made us pass an on road pursuit test before they would let
us do the easier cones run. Well worth while.



--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 12:09:15 +0100, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 10:41:20 +0000, furmity <no@email.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 20:58:07 +0000, YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
>>> straight away.
>
>>Taught to ride a bike in the early 80s?
>>
>>Blimey.  I thought you just turned up to the test having read the
>>highway code to learn a few roadsigns.
>
>My parents insisted, in 1979, that I do one of the voluntary things
>that the police used to run. So I was 'taught' too

How long did it take you to forget that shit and learn to ride
properly? Yeah, I know, you're still learning.

I did my test a couple of years ealier than that, no training at all.
I don't even know if anything existed, TBH. The emergency stop, as I
recall, was just a case of 'keep it vaguely in a straight line and
stop well before the guy who's jumped out from the pavement. He was
miles away, piece of piss.

I did have to retake my test(s) around 1999 after some unfortunate
legal isses that some may recall, so had to go through the whole CBT
and everything. Laughable, it was. I mean, I literally wanted to laugh
at some of the bullshit they were spouting. The emergency stop, as I
recall, wa no different from when I first did it 20 odd years
previously.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 01/07/2025 01:44, Ace wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 12:09:15 +0100, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 10:41:20 +0000, furmity <no@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 20:58:07 +0000, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
>>>> straight away.
>>
>>> Taught to ride a bike in the early 80s?
>>>
>>> Blimey.  I thought you just turned up to the test having read the
>>> highway code to learn a few roadsigns.
>>
>> My parents insisted, in 1979, that I do one of the voluntary things
>> that the police used to run. So I was 'taught' too
>
> How long did it take you to forget that shit and learn to ride
> properly? Yeah, I know, you're still learning.
>
> I did my test a couple of years ealier than that, no training at all.
> I don't even know if anything existed, TBH. The emergency stop, as I
> recall, was just a case of 'keep it vaguely in a straight line and
> stop well before the guy who's jumped out from the pavement. He was
> miles away, piece of piss.
>
> I did have to retake my test(s) around 1999 after some unfortunate
> legal isses that some may recall, so had to go through the whole CBT
> and everything. Laughable, it was. I mean, I literally wanted to laugh
> at some of the bullshit they were spouting. The emergency stop, as I
> recall, wa no different from when I first did it 20 odd years
> previously.

Didn't we have someone's kid here recently[1] pass their test who could
tell us?
My vague recall of 2007 is that just grab everything, get it stopped and
left foot down, gears can go hang.
The MAIN thing they wanted from me was full safety checks before moving
away, like gears, mirrors, shoulder check etc.

Mind you I'm only writing this to brag that my examiner guessed I'd been
riding for 2 years when it was only 3 days. Hehehehe.

I can't do U turns :/

[1] like within the last 5 years

On 01/07/2025 01:44, Ace wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 12:09:15 +0100, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 10:41:20 +0000, furmity <no@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 20:58:07 +0000, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Pretty sure (back in the very early '80s) I was taught to pull it in
>>>> straight away.
>>
>>> Taught to ride a bike in the early 80s?
>>>
>>> Blimey.  I thought you just turned up to the test having read the
>>> highway code to learn a few roadsigns.
>>
>> My parents insisted, in 1979, that I do one of the voluntary things
>> that the police used to run. So I was 'taught' too
>
> How long did it take you to forget that shit and learn to ride
> properly? Yeah, I know, you're still learning.
>
> I did my test a couple of years ealier than that, no training at all.
> I don't even know if anything existed, TBH. The emergency stop, as I
> recall, was just a case of 'keep it vaguely in a straight line and
> stop well before the guy who's jumped out from the pavement. He was
> miles away, piece of piss.

That was my problem on the 1st test, he was miles away. I didn't react
in time.


--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 01/07/2025 17:21, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 01/07/2025 01:44, Ace wrote:
>> I did my test a couple of years ealier than that, no training at all.
>> I don't even know if anything existed, TBH. The emergency stop, as I
>> recall, was just a case of 'keep it vaguely in a straight line and
>> stop well before the guy who's jumped out from the pavement. He was
>> miles away, piece of piss.
>
> That was my problem on the 1st test, he was miles away. I didn't react
> in time.

Whereas in my case on my first attempt, he waited so long that I decided
he wasn't going to, and began to relax, at which point he signalled.
Locked the rear wheel, failed. I think TBH there was something else too,
bad positioning leaving the car park I think. I really was shit.

--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip

On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 11:40:02 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>furmity <no@email.com> wrote in news:ab65145510766c25bab9156bf2085667

>> Taught to ride a bike in the early 80s?

>the Star training scheme was a thing in the early 80s.

As Simon Wils points out, late 70s - now that you've mentioned the
name, I recall it was the Star Rider scheme I went to in 1979
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old