🚀 go-pugleaf

PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote:
> This morning I took the Energica to work. Well, for nearly 50 metres,
> anyway. Then it abruptly slowed and coasted to a halt. The dash had a
> red message displayed, helpfully telling me something along the lines of
> "Unknown fault. Contact Service". The engine check light was also lit.

[snip]

> I suppose it's worth paying a technician to pull out the codes, but
> otherwise it's going to be relegated to trundling across town only: I
> don't trust it to get me to work at the moment.

As I have remarked before, you are to be commended for being so
equal-tempered about this bike and its various faults.

If it were mine, I'd be setting fire to it about now.

Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote in
news:vvlk5a$3010e$1@dont-email.me:

> PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote:
>> This morning I took the Energica to work. Well, for nearly 50 metres,
>> anyway. Then it abruptly slowed and coasted to a halt. The dash had a
>> red message displayed, helpfully telling me something along the lines
>> of "Unknown fault. Contact Service". The engine check light was also
>> lit.
>
> [snip]
>
>> I suppose it's worth paying a technician to pull out the codes, but
>> otherwise it's going to be relegated to trundling across town only: I
>> don't trust it to get me to work at the moment.
>
> As I have remarked before, you are to be commended for being so
> equal-tempered about this bike and its various faults.
>
> If it were mine, I'd be setting fire to it about now.
>
>

+1

park it outside, ignite at 2AM, the insurer will blame the battery ...

On 09/05/2025 18:24, PipL wrote:
> This morning I took the Energica to work. Well, for nearly 50 metres,
> anyway. Then it abruptly slowed and coasted to a halt. The dash had a
> red message displayed, helpfully telling me something along the lines of
> "Unknown fault. Contact Service". The engine check light was also lit.

Sounds like any modern vehicle, ICE or EV




--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 11/05/2025 11:51, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 09/05/2025 18:24, PipL wrote:
>> This morning I took the Energica to work. Well, for nearly 50 metres,
>> anyway. Then it abruptly slowed and coasted to a halt. The dash had a
>> red message displayed, helpfully telling me something along the lines
>> of "Unknown fault. Contact Service". The engine check light was also lit.
>
> Sounds like any modern vehicle, ICE or EV

It's the way the entire industry has gone. One used to be able to buy
proper workshop manuals. My first Guzzi had a manual detailing how to
activate the diagnostic LED (no such thing as OBD back then) and a table
of the flashed codes and what they meant. And they were simple: open
circuit to phase sensor; head temperature out of range.

The 1200 will display codes much more comprehensively, but they're only
accessible by entering a 5-digit code that you can only get from the
factory manual. The manual that they don't sell to the public.

Modern OBD diagnostics do help a lot (if you can wade through the
cascaded faults and figure out which is the root cause), so I will at
some point try plugging in the scanner and seeing whether it can pick up
any industry standard codes - I assume there are some. However, as it's
a bike and an EV then it's unlikely that I'll find anything useful.

--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip

PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote:
> Modern OBD diagnostics do help a lot (if you can wade through the
> cascaded faults and figure out which is the root cause), so I will at
> some point try plugging in the scanner and seeing whether it can pick up
> any industry standard codes - I assume there are some. However, as it's
> a bike and an EV then it's unlikely that I'll find anything useful.

Is there much of a hacker community?  Certain EVs have a hacker following
which means there are third party apps like Leaf Spy and Scan My Tesla, and
info about how the ECUs talk to each other, what the codes mean etc, and
those are the ones people use for drivetrain swaps / EV restomods.  Others
are more like a dishwasher - they're boring and nobody is paying much
attention to how they work or messing about with the software.

Theo

On 11/05/2025 13:08, Theo wrote:
> PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote:
>> Modern OBD diagnostics do help a lot (if you can wade through the
>> cascaded faults and figure out which is the root cause), so I will at
>> some point try plugging in the scanner and seeing whether it can pick up
>> any industry standard codes - I assume there are some. However, as it's
>> a bike and an EV then it's unlikely that I'll find anything useful.
>
> Is there much of a hacker community?

Not that I'm aware of. Most of the forum posts I've found are people
taking them in to dealers.

There was a useful post about resetting the bike, which I've archived.

I did try the scanner: it connected using, if I recall correctly, an
ISO/SAE protocol. It reported a load of stored codes, all but two being,
I think, Energica-specific. Of the two, one was quite interesting, being
something about loss of contact with battery management. Could possibly
be the same one as was on the newsgroup (down to a safety microswitch
under the seat opening a power relay).

As it seemed to be throttle-position related though, that seems less
likely. Unless there's another microswitch in the throttle. The throttle
itself is a later hall-effect one, I think.

--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip

PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote:
> I did try the scanner: it connected using, if I recall correctly, an
> ISO/SAE protocol. It reported a load of stored codes, all but two being,
> I think, Energica-specific. Of the two, one was quite interesting, being
> something about loss of contact with battery management. Could possibly
> be the same one as was on the newsgroup (down to a safety microswitch
> under the seat opening a power relay).
>
> As it seemed to be throttle-position related though, that seems less
> likely. Unless there's another microswitch in the throttle. The throttle
> itself is a later hall-effect one, I think.

General top culprits for Weird Stuff:

1. Bad connection to the 12V battery (assuming there is one)
2. Low voltage 12V battery
3. Assorted wiring gremlins - loose connections somewhere.

I'd try the usual things - unplugging and replugging connections, maybe
there's some corrosion somewhere.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote:
> > I did try the scanner: it connected using, if I recall correctly, an
> > ISO/SAE protocol. It reported a load of stored codes, all but two being,
> > I think, Energica-specific. Of the two, one was quite interesting, being
> > something about loss of contact with battery management. Could possibly
> > be the same one as was on the newsgroup (down to a safety microswitch
> > under the seat opening a power relay).
> >
> > As it seemed to be throttle-position related though, that seems less
> > likely. Unless there's another microswitch in the throttle. The throttle
> > itself is a later hall-effect one, I think.
>
> General top culprits for Weird Stuff:
>
> 1. Bad connection to the 12V battery (assuming there is one)
> 2. Low voltage 12V battery
> 3. Assorted wiring gremlins - loose connections somewhere.
>
> I'd try the usual things - unplugging and replugging connections, maybe
> there's some corrosion somewhere.

You must forgive me for failing to state the Golden Rules, as holy men once
taught us:

- Is it plugged in?
- Have you tried turning it off and on again?

My list covered the first, but for the second try disconnecting the 12V
battery for a few minutes and see if that clears anything.  Certain MG EV
drivers are recommended to carry a 10mm spanner at all times...

Theo

On 11/05/2025 22:31, Theo wrote:
>
> My list covered the first, but for the second try disconnecting the 12V
> battery for a few minutes and see if that clears anything.  Certain MG EV
> drivers are recommended to carry a 10mm spanner at all times...

There is no 12V battery - low voltage electrics run directly off a
(presumably isolated) buck regulator off the traction battery.


--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip

On 11/05/2025 22:31, Theo wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote:
>>> I did try the scanner: it connected using, if I recall correctly, an
>>> ISO/SAE protocol. It reported a load of stored codes, all but two being,
>>> I think, Energica-specific. Of the two, one was quite interesting, being
>>> something about loss of contact with battery management. Could possibly
>>> be the same one as was on the newsgroup (down to a safety microswitch
>>> under the seat opening a power relay).
>>>
>>> As it seemed to be throttle-position related though, that seems less
>>> likely. Unless there's another microswitch in the throttle. The throttle
>>> itself is a later hall-effect one, I think.
>>
>> General top culprits for Weird Stuff:
>>
>> 1. Bad connection to the 12V battery (assuming there is one)
>> 2. Low voltage 12V battery
>> 3. Assorted wiring gremlins - loose connections somewhere.
>>
>> I'd try the usual things - unplugging and replugging connections, maybe
>> there's some corrosion somewhere.

Unlikely, however, despite what the dealer said, the Smoke Incident
almost certainly affected the LV electrics somehow - the leaked current
path back to the battery can only have been somehow via the low voltage
loom, though that doesn't quite square with the standard practice of EV
traction power being isolated from vehicle ground. Then again, the LV
power is probably grounded somehow. I thought there must be an isolating
transformer, but who knows.

The smoke came from the point of the motor short but I got the
impression it also came from somewhere else. I suppose the only way to
be sure is to strip the bike and possibly the loom itself.

--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip

On 11/05/2025 12:17, PipL wrote:
> On 11/05/2025 11:51, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 09/05/2025 18:24, PipL wrote:
>>> This morning I took the Energica to work. Well, for nearly 50 metres,
>>> anyway. Then it abruptly slowed and coasted to a halt. The dash had a
>>> red message displayed, helpfully telling me something along the lines
>>> of "Unknown fault. Contact Service". The engine check light was also
>>> lit.
>>
>> Sounds like any modern vehicle, ICE or EV
>
> It's the way the entire industry has gone. One used to be able to buy
> proper workshop manuals. My first Guzzi had a manual detailing how to
> activate the diagnostic LED (no such thing as OBD back then) and a table
> of the flashed codes and what they meant. And they were simple: open
> circuit to phase sensor; head temperature out of range.

That must have been nice to have that. The Pegs have always been a case
of "community knowledge" to diagnose.

The Vivaro (van) is a law unto itself, forever popping up with N/A 01/01
type codes

>
> The 1200 will display codes much more comprehensively, but they're only
> accessible by entering a 5-digit code that you can only get from the
> factory manual. The manual that they don't sell to the public.

Surely someone, somewhere will have a digital copy, that is slipped into
the ether?

>
> Modern OBD diagnostics do help a lot (if you can wade through the
> cascaded faults and figure out which is the root cause), so I will at
> some point try plugging in the scanner and seeing whether it can pick up
> any industry standard codes - I assume there are some. However, as it's
> a bike and an EV then it's unlikely that I'll find anything useful.
>

My understanding of the OBDs is that they will show whatever code is
sent out, I then take the code and do a bit of research.

In the case of N/A codes, it is (( think) more a case of a faulty
sensor, or something that the ECU cannot identify.

Given that the Vivaro has had AdBlu Delete and a scraped out DPF, my
finger points at those 2 areas.



--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 12/05/2025 08:50, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 11/05/2025 12:17, PipL wrote:
>> On 11/05/2025 11:51, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> On 09/05/2025 18:24, PipL wrote:
>>>> This morning I took the Energica to work. Well, for nearly 50
>>>> metres, anyway. Then it abruptly slowed and coasted to a halt. The
>>>> dash had a red message displayed, helpfully telling me something
>>>> along the lines of "Unknown fault. Contact Service". The engine
>>>> check light was also lit.
>>>
>>> Sounds like any modern vehicle, ICE or EV
>>
>> It's the way the entire industry has gone. One used to be able to buy
>> proper workshop manuals. My first Guzzi had a manual detailing how to
>> activate the diagnostic LED (no such thing as OBD back then) and a
>> table of the flashed codes and what they meant. And they were simple:
>> open circuit to phase sensor; head temperature out of range.
>
> That must have been nice to have that. The Pegs have always been a case
> of "community knowledge" to diagnose.
>
> The Vivaro (van) is a law unto itself, forever popping up with N/A 01/01
> type codes
>
>>
>> The 1200 will display codes much more comprehensively, but they're
>> only accessible by entering a 5-digit code that you can only get from
>> the factory manual. The manual that they don't sell to the public.
>
> Surely someone, somewhere will have a digital copy, that is slipped into
> the ether?

Oh, there is. And I know that someone rather well. Generally mirrored.

What really still peeves me is that you have to plug in a diagnostic box
(or DucatiDiag) just to reset the TPS - something that could so easily
have been a dash menu item. I have probably grumbled about this more
than once in the past.

>>
>> Modern OBD diagnostics do help a lot (if you can wade through the
>> cascaded faults and figure out which is the root cause), so I will at
>> some point try plugging in the scanner and seeing whether it can pick
>> up any industry standard codes - I assume there are some. However, as
>> it's a bike and an EV then it's unlikely that I'll find anything useful.
>>
>
> My understanding of the OBDs is that they will show whatever code is
> sent out, I then take the code and do a bit of research.

Yes, usually. My scanner will provide the code and the details for cars
it knows (it has a big library that gets updates); it also offers a link
to Google in case you need more.


--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip