🚀 go-pugleaf

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
> cordless phone inherently better)?

Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?) or
a standalone SIP provider?

Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied VOIP
phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice' is
analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
handsets with it)

Theo

On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>
>Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?) or
>a standalone SIP provider?

It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
maybe I am wrong.
>
>Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied VOIP
>phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice' is
>analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>handsets with it)

The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.
>
>Theo

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:

> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
> cordless phone inherently better)?

Maybe you just need a new corded phone?

Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
phones.

On Wed, 05 Mar 2025 17:16:59 +0000, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>
>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>
>Maybe you just need a new corded phone?

I have two spares. I just wondered if corded phones are available as
dedicated digital phones.
>
>Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>phones.

It is not mains hum. There is no power supply as such. It must take
its power from the router.

On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:24:11 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
wrote:

>On 05/03/2025 15:33, Scott wrote:
>> On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>
>>> Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?) or
>>> a standalone SIP provider?
>>
>> It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
>> maybe I am wrong.
>
>It is but most use some kind of lock-in.
>
>>>
>>> Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied VOIP
>>> phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice' is
>>> analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>>> handsets with it)
>>
>
>The router ZEN supply has VOIP PABX facilities built in, so as well as
>connecting DECT and "POTS" style handsets, it also allows SIP
>connections. I have a second Fritz!Box on my Spanish home which connects
>to the one in the UK over a VPN and has a DECT phone on that...
>
>
>> The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
>> manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
>> corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
>> phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
>> cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
>> plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
>> phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.
>
>I have the same setup, although I use voipfone.co.uk not Zen's Digital
>Voice. My DECT base station plugs into the Fritz!box and the quality is
>fine, so I think the issue is the phones you are using...
>
>.. you can connect a digital phone but it would connect over the
>network. Most any SIP phone should work, but they are fiddly to
>configure....
>
>I have one of these, but think a DECT would be simpler...
>
Thanks, but I already have a cordless phone that works perfectly
(unsurprisingly as it was made by Fritz). My question is whether
corded digital phones exist (as it seems odd that the corded phone has
more background noise than the the cordless one).

Scott wrote:

> I just wondered if corded phones are available as
> dedicated digital phones.

Yes e.g.

<https://www.onedirect.co.uk/business-telephones/voip-ip-phones>

But ...

Given that you're using Zen plus the Fritz!box you couldn't use an IP
phone, you need a bog standard analogue phone.  If you moved your number
to a dedicated VoIP provider, you could us an IP phone.

On 05/03/2025 15:33, Scott wrote:
> On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>
>> Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?) or
>> a standalone SIP provider?
>
> It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
> maybe I am wrong.

It is but most use some kind of lock-in.

>>
>> Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied VOIP
>> phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice' is
>> analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>> handsets with it)
>

The router ZEN supply has VOIP PABX facilities built in, so as well as
connecting DECT and "POTS" style handsets, it also allows SIP
connections. I have a second Fritz!Box on my Spanish home which connects
to the one in the UK over a VPN and has a DECT phone on that...


> The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
> manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
> corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
> phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
> cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
> plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
> phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.

I have the same setup, although I use voipfone.co.uk not Zen's Digital
Voice. My DECT base station plugs into the Fritz!box and the quality is
fine, so I think the issue is the phones you are using...

.. you can connect a digital phone but it would connect over the
network. Most any SIP phone should work, but they are fiddly to
configure....

I have one of these, but think a DECT would be simpler...

>>
>> Theo

Dave

On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>
>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>
> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>
> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
> phones.

Its probably an earth loop.

Cheap cordless phone


--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

On 05/03/2025 17:26, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Mar 2025 17:16:59 +0000, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>
>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>
> I have two spares. I just wondered if corded phones are available as
> dedicated digital phones.
>>
>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>> phones.
>
> It is not mains hum. There is no power supply as such.

So?
Never stuck your finger into the input of an audio amp?
No power in your finger either, unless you are a superhero


It must take
> its power from the router.

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

On Wed 05/03/2025 18:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>
>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>
>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>> phones.
>
> Its probably an earth loop.
>
> Cheap cordless phone
>
>
Since when does domestic network kit require or even work with a mains
earth?

On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>
>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>
>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>> phones.
>
>Its probably an earth loop.
>
>Cheap cordless phone

Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.

On 05/03/2025 19:10, Andy Burns wrote:
> Scott wrote:
>
>> I just wondered if corded phones are available as
>> dedicated digital phones.
>
> Yes e.g.
>
> <https://www.onedirect.co.uk/business-telephones/voip-ip-phones>
>
> But ...
>
> Given that you're using Zen plus the Fritz!box you couldn't use an IP
> phone, you need a bog standard analogue phone.  If you moved your number
> to a dedicated VoIP provider, you could us an IP phone.


You can use any SIP phone. The Fritz!Box acts as a SIP relay or PABX.
I wonder if its got bits of Asterix in there.
So you can connect analogue (pots style) phones, DECT phones, or SIP
phones...

Dave

On 05/03/2025 18:38, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:24:11 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2025 15:33, Scott wrote:
>>> On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>
>>>> Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?) or
>>>> a standalone SIP provider?
>>>
>>> It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
>>> maybe I am wrong.
>>
>> It is but most use some kind of lock-in.
>>
>>>>
>>>> Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied VOIP
>>>> phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice' is
>>>> analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>>>> handsets with it)
>>>
>>
>> The router ZEN supply has VOIP PABX facilities built in, so as well as
>> connecting DECT and "POTS" style handsets, it also allows SIP
>> connections. I have a second Fritz!Box on my Spanish home which connects
>> to the one in the UK over a VPN and has a DECT phone on that...
>>
>>
>>> The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
>>> manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
>>> corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
>>> phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
>>> cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
>>> plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
>>> phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.
>>
>> I have the same setup, although I use voipfone.co.uk not Zen's Digital
>> Voice. My DECT base station plugs into the Fritz!box and the quality is
>> fine, so I think the issue is the phones you are using...
>>
>> .. you can connect a digital phone but it would connect over the
>> network. Most any SIP phone should work, but they are fiddly to
>> configure....
>>
>> I have one of these, but think a DECT would be simpler...
>>
> Thanks, but I already have a cordless phone that works perfectly
> (unsurprisingly as it was made by Fritz). My question is whether
> corded digital phones exist (as it seems odd that the corded phone has
> more background noise than the the cordless one).

Depends on what you mean by a digital corded phone. The phone socket on
the router is Analogue only. To have a digital corded phone you need a
digital interface, which needs a digital protocol. So a "SIP" phone
which has a TCPIP connection and plugs into an RJ45 is to all intensive
purposes a "Digital Corded Phone". It has a wire and speaks a digital
protocol.

Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
over FM because there was no hiss.

Dave

On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:

>> Cheap cordless phone
>
> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.

I have 3 cheap Panasonic cordless analogue phones and 1 BT answerphone
and they all work perfectly plugged into the analogue port on the Zen
Fritzbox.

I butchered the 2m RJ11 cable which comes with the Fritzbox and
connected it into my internal phone wiring,which I rewired after getting
rid of the BT copper circuit to my house.

1 Dect phone was more expensive that 3 Panasonic cordless analogue
phones which is why I went down that route.

All the above has worked perfectly for almost 3 years now ever since I
got FTTP installed.

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 10:37:59 +0000, grinch <grinch@somewhere.net>
wrote:

>On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>
>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>
>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>
>I have 3 cheap Panasonic cordless analogue phones and 1 BT answerphone
>and they all work perfectly plugged into the analogue port on the Zen
>Fritzbox.
>
>I butchered the 2m RJ11 cable which comes with the Fritzbox and
>connected it into my internal phone wiring,which I rewired after getting
>rid of the BT copper circuit to my house.
>
>1 Dect phone was more expensive that 3 Panasonic cordless analogue
>phones which is why I went down that route.
>
>All the above has worked perfectly for almost 3 years now ever since I
>got FTTP installed.

My cordless phone communicates direct with the router without any need
for the analogue port. I am told this is much better.

On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>
>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>
>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>> phones.
>>
>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>
>> Cheap cordless phone
>
> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.

Then its mains hum
  Cheap corded phone


--
The higher up the mountainside
The greener grows the grass.
The higher up the monkey climbs
The more he shows his arse.

Traditional

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:24:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>>
>>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>>> phones.
>>>
>>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>>
>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>
>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>
>Then its mains hum
>  Cheap corded phone

Funny it's intermittent then. I am now experimenting with a different
phone that seems okay. Both are BT. Did BT make 'cheap' and 'not
cheap' phones.

David Wade wrote:

> Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
> is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
> over FM because there was no hiss.

Digital phones usually inject "comfort tone" to avoid silence, because
people think of silence as a dropped connection.

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 12:20:29 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>David Wade wrote:
>
>> Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>> is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>> over FM because there was no hiss.
>
>Digital phones usually inject "comfort tone" to avoid silence, because
>people think of silence as a dropped connection.

Thankfully mine does not seem to do this.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:

> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
> cordless phone inherently better)?

Here is a corded digital phone.

https://www.yealink.com/en/product-detail/ip-phone-t31p

On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 21:58:30 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
wrote:

>On 05/03/2025 18:38, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:24:11 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2025 15:33, Scott wrote:
>>>> On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
>>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?) or
>>>>> a standalone SIP provider?
>>>>
>>>> It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
>>>> maybe I am wrong.
>>>
>>> It is but most use some kind of lock-in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied VOIP
>>>>> phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice' is
>>>>> analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>>>>> handsets with it)
>>>>
>>> The router ZEN supply has VOIP PABX facilities built in, so as well as
>>> connecting DECT and "POTS" style handsets, it also allows SIP
>>> connections. I have a second Fritz!Box on my Spanish home which connects
>>> to the one in the UK over a VPN and has a DECT phone on that...
>>>
>>>> The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
>>>> manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
>>>> corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
>>>> phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
>>>> cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
>>>> plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
>>>> phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.
>>>
>>> I have the same setup, although I use voipfone.co.uk not Zen's Digital
>>> Voice. My DECT base station plugs into the Fritz!box and the quality is
>>> fine, so I think the issue is the phones you are using...
>>>
>>> .. you can connect a digital phone but it would connect over the
>>> network. Most any SIP phone should work, but they are fiddly to
>>> configure....
>>>
>>> I have one of these, but think a DECT would be simpler...
>>>
>> Thanks, but I already have a cordless phone that works perfectly
>> (unsurprisingly as it was made by Fritz). My question is whether
>> corded digital phones exist (as it seems odd that the corded phone has
>> more background noise than the the cordless one).

>Depends on what you mean by a digital corded phone. The phone socket on
>the router is Analogue only. To have a digital corded phone you need a
>digital interface, which needs a digital protocol. So a "SIP" phone
>which has a TCPIP connection and plugs into an RJ45 is to all intensive
>purposes a "Digital Corded Phone". It has a wire and speaks a digital
>protocol.
>
>Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>over FM because there was no hiss.
>
Very good analogy with DAB. I think DAB sounds very good with R4 and
R5L but not so good with music stations, which seems to me the ideal
properties for a phone.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:24:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>>>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>>>> phones.
>>>>
>>>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>>>
>>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>>
>>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>>
>> Then its mains hum
>> Cheap corded phone
>
> Funny it's intermittent then. I am now experimenting with a different
> phone that seems okay. Both are BT. Did BT make 'cheap' and 'not
> cheap' phones.
>

I’d suspect a rough supply from the switcher supplying the digital to
analogue converter within the router. It might be load dependent.

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 12:45:23 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:24:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>>>>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>>>>> phones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>>>
>>>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>>>
>>> Then its mains hum
>>> Cheap corded phone
>>
>> Funny it's intermittent then. I am now experimenting with a different
>> phone that seems okay. Both are BT. Did BT make 'cheap' and 'not
>> cheap' phones.
>>
>I’d suspect a rough supply from the switcher supplying the digital to
>analogue converter within the router. It might be load dependent.

Interestingly, the phone that works less well is the larger of the
two.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 12:45:23 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:24:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>>>>>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>>>>>> phones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>>>>
>>>>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>>>>
>>>> Then its mains hum
>>>> Cheap corded phone
>>>
>>> Funny it's intermittent then. I am now experimenting with a different
>>> phone that seems okay. Both are BT. Did BT make 'cheap' and 'not
>>> cheap' phones.
>>>
>> I’d suspect a rough supply from the switcher supplying the digital to
>> analogue converter within the router. It might be load dependent.
>
> Interestingly, the phone that works less well is the larger of the
> two.
>

It can be counter intuitive. Less of a load can cause a switcher to go into
a cycle skipping mode which could generate more noise. Switchers can be
made to be extremely low noise, but that adds more filter components, which
seems unlikely for a cheap to produce consumer router. As you have two
corded phones invest a couple of quid in a T splitter and try experimenting
with both phones, individually off hook and in parallel off hook.

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> writes:

> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>
>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>
> Here is a corded digital phone.
>
> https://www.yealink.com/en/product-detail/ip-phone-t31p

I forgot to mention, the cord in this case is an ethernet
cable. Although it doesn't mention that, but I think it would have to be
if the digital cordless phone is going to decode VOIP, which it would
have to, as what else is there which is digital to be decoded?

On 06/03/2025 12:18, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:24:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>>>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>>>> phones.
>>>>
>>>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>>>
>>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>>
>>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>>
>> Then its mains hum
>>   Cheap corded phone
>
> Funny it's intermittent then. I am now experimenting with a different
> phone that seems okay. Both are BT. Did BT make 'cheap' and 'not
> cheap' phones.

No. Only cheap ones

--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

On 06/03/2025 12:31, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 12:20:29 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> David Wade wrote:
>>
>>> Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>>> is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>>> over FM because there was no hiss.
>>
>> Digital phones usually inject "comfort tone" to avoid silence, because
>> people think of silence as a dropped connection.
>
> Thankfully mine does not seem to do this.

The first thing I noticed about VOIP, 20 years ago was NO HISS.

ADSL added a few dB of hiss to the already far from silent copper line
--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

On 06/03/2025 15:18, Richmond wrote:
> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> writes:
>
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>
>> Here is a corded digital phone.
>>
>> https://www.yealink.com/en/product-detail/ip-phone-t31p
>
> I forgot to mention, the cord in this case is an ethernet
> cable. Although it doesn't mention that, but I think it would have to be
> if the digital cordless phone is going to decode VOIP, which it would
> have to, as what else is there which is digital to be decoded?

TCP/IP and ethernet

--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 06/03/2025 15:18, Richmond wrote:
>> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> writes:
>>
>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>
>>> Here is a corded digital phone.
>>>
>>> https://www.yealink.com/en/product-detail/ip-phone-t31p
>> I forgot to mention, the cord in this case is an ethernet
>> cable. Although it doesn't mention that, but I think it would have to be
>> if the digital cordless phone is going to decode VOIP, which it would
>> have to, as what else is there which is digital to be decoded?
>
> TCP/IP and ethernet

Yes, VOIP means Voice Over Internet Protocol. That's what I meant.

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 16:10:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 06/03/2025 12:18, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:24:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power supply?
>>>>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>>>>> phones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>>>
>>>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>>>
>>> Then its mains hum
>>>   Cheap corded phone
>>
>> Funny it's intermittent then. I am now experimenting with a different
>> phone that seems okay. Both are BT. Did BT make 'cheap' and 'not
>> cheap' phones.
>
>No. Only cheap ones

This may explain it.

On Thu 06/03/2025 12:35, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 21:58:30 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2025 18:38, Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:24:11 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/03/2025 15:33, Scott wrote:
>>>>> On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
>>>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?) or
>>>>>> a standalone SIP provider?
>>>>>
>>>>> It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
>>>>> maybe I am wrong.
>>>>
>>>> It is but most use some kind of lock-in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied VOIP
>>>>>> phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice' is
>>>>>> analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>>>>>> handsets with it)
>>>>>
>>>> The router ZEN supply has VOIP PABX facilities built in, so as well as
>>>> connecting DECT and "POTS" style handsets, it also allows SIP
>>>> connections. I have a second Fritz!Box on my Spanish home which connects
>>>> to the one in the UK over a VPN and has a DECT phone on that...
>>>>
>>>>> The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
>>>>> manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
>>>>> corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
>>>>> phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
>>>>> cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
>>>>> plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
>>>>> phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.
>>>>
>>>> I have the same setup, although I use voipfone.co.uk not Zen's Digital
>>>> Voice. My DECT base station plugs into the Fritz!box and the quality is
>>>> fine, so I think the issue is the phones you are using...
>>>>
>>>> .. you can connect a digital phone but it would connect over the
>>>> network. Most any SIP phone should work, but they are fiddly to
>>>> configure....
>>>>
>>>> I have one of these, but think a DECT would be simpler...
>>>>
>>> Thanks, but I already have a cordless phone that works perfectly
>>> (unsurprisingly as it was made by Fritz). My question is whether
>>> corded digital phones exist (as it seems odd that the corded phone has
>>> more background noise than the the cordless one).
>
>> Depends on what you mean by a digital corded phone. The phone socket on
>> the router is Analogue only. To have a digital corded phone you need a
>> digital interface, which needs a digital protocol. So a "SIP" phone
>> which has a TCPIP connection and plugs into an RJ45 is to all intensive
>> purposes a "Digital Corded Phone". It has a wire and speaks a digital
>> protocol.
>>
>> Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>> is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>> over FM because there was no hiss.
>>
> Very good analogy with DAB. I think DAB sounds very good with R4 and
> R5L but not so good with music stations, which seems to me the ideal
> properties for a phone.


The people who invented DAB had foresight and knew that conventional
analogue was on its way out, viz. Droitwich 198KHz LW going off at the
end of June.
They also realised that most radio listening these days is either on
your smartphone or in the car so they aimed DAB specifically at the car
market and matched the quality accordingly.
This of course is in the UK. Other places such as Germany run DAB
(sorry, they now use DAB+ exclusively) at a much higher data rate which
can match or exceed CD quality at home and provide amazing clarity and
depth of sound in the car.

On 06/03/2025 17:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/03/2025 12:18, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:24:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for
>>>>>>> VOIP.
>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise.
>>>>>>> Another
>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or
>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power
>>>>>> supply?
>>>>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>>>>> phones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>>>
>>>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>>>
>>> Then its mains hum
>>>   Cheap corded phone
>>
>> Funny it's intermittent then. I am now experimenting with a different
>> phone that seems okay. Both are BT. Did BT make 'cheap' and 'not
>> cheap' phones.
>
> No. Only cheap ones
>
Did BT ever actually make anything? Isn´t all manufacturing contracted
out and then gets a BT logo at the end....

Dave

On 06/03/2025 17:20, David Wade wrote:
> On 06/03/2025 17:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/03/2025 12:18, Scott wrote:
>>> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:24:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for
>>>>>>>> VOIP.
>>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise.
>>>>>>>> Another
>>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any
>>>>>>>> settings
>>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP
>>>>>>>> (or is a
>>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power
>>>>>>> supply?
>>>>>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>>>>>> phones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>>>>
>>>>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>>>>
>>>> Then its mains hum
>>>>   Cheap corded phone
>>>
>>> Funny it's intermittent then. I am now experimenting with a different
>>> phone that seems okay. Both are BT. Did BT make 'cheap' and 'not
>>> cheap' phones.
>>
>> No. Only cheap ones
>>
> Did BT ever actually make anything? Isn´t all manufacturing contracted
> out and then gets a BT logo at the end....
>
Not since the days of the bakelite phones.

It's all cheap chinesium shit.
How many people have to reboot their BT routers?
I never have to reboot my draytek


> Dave

--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 17:51:32 +0000, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>On Thu 06/03/2025 12:35, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 21:58:30 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2025 18:38, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:24:11 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/03/2025 15:33, Scott wrote:
>>>>>> On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
>>>>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?) or
>>>>>>> a standalone SIP provider?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
>>>>>> maybe I am wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is but most use some kind of lock-in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied VOIP
>>>>>>> phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice' is
>>>>>>> analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>>>>>>> handsets with it)
>>>>>>
>>>>> The router ZEN supply has VOIP PABX facilities built in, so as well as
>>>>> connecting DECT and "POTS" style handsets, it also allows SIP
>>>>> connections. I have a second Fritz!Box on my Spanish home which connects
>>>>> to the one in the UK over a VPN and has a DECT phone on that...
>>>>>
>>>>>> The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
>>>>>> manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
>>>>>> corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
>>>>>> phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
>>>>>> cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
>>>>>> plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
>>>>>> phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the same setup, although I use voipfone.co.uk not Zen's Digital
>>>>> Voice. My DECT base station plugs into the Fritz!box and the quality is
>>>>> fine, so I think the issue is the phones you are using...
>>>>>
>>>>> .. you can connect a digital phone but it would connect over the
>>>>> network. Most any SIP phone should work, but they are fiddly to
>>>>> configure....
>>>>>
>>>>> I have one of these, but think a DECT would be simpler...
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks, but I already have a cordless phone that works perfectly
>>>> (unsurprisingly as it was made by Fritz). My question is whether
>>>> corded digital phones exist (as it seems odd that the corded phone has
>>>> more background noise than the the cordless one).
>>
>>> Depends on what you mean by a digital corded phone. The phone socket on
>>> the router is Analogue only. To have a digital corded phone you need a
>>> digital interface, which needs a digital protocol. So a "SIP" phone
>>> which has a TCPIP connection and plugs into an RJ45 is to all intensive
>>> purposes a "Digital Corded Phone". It has a wire and speaks a digital
>>> protocol.
>>>
>>> Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>>> is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>>> over FM because there was no hiss.
>>>
>> Very good analogy with DAB. I think DAB sounds very good with R4 and
>> R5L but not so good with music stations, which seems to me the ideal
>> properties for a phone.
>
>
>The people who invented DAB had foresight and knew that conventional
>analogue was on its way out, viz. Droitwich 198KHz LW going off at the
>end of June.
>They also realised that most radio listening these days is either on
>your smartphone or in the car so they aimed DAB specifically at the car
>market and matched the quality accordingly.

Are you sure? I understood that DAB started as the Eureka-147 project
in the 1980s, long before consumer adoption of mobile phones. The
stated aim was near CD-quality sound with bitrates of 192 kbps or
higher. I believe the degradation came much later.

https://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1998-10.pdf

>This of course is in the UK. Other places such as Germany run DAB
>(sorry, they now use DAB+ exclusively) at a much higher data rate which
>can match or exceed CD quality at home and provide amazing clarity and
>depth of sound in the car.
>
Eureka-147 was supported by the European Broadcasting Union.

And other places such as Denmark follow the UK model of low bitrates.

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 19:13:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 06/03/2025 17:20, David Wade wrote:
>> On 06/03/2025 17:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 06/03/2025 12:18, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:24:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/03/2025 19:36, Scott wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:50:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 05/03/2025 17:16, Richmond wrote:
>>>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for
>>>>>>>>> VOIP.
>>>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise.
>>>>>>>>> Another
>>>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any
>>>>>>>>> settings
>>>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP
>>>>>>>>> (or is a
>>>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe you just need a new corded phone?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is the buzzing noise at 50hz? does the phone have its own power
>>>>>>>> supply?
>>>>>>>> It could be a faulty power supply. I had that problem with one of my
>>>>>>>> phones.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its probably an earth loop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheap cordless phone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Except it's a corded phone, as I explained.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then its mains hum
>>>>>   Cheap corded phone
>>>>
>>>> Funny it's intermittent then. I am now experimenting with a different
>>>> phone that seems okay. Both are BT. Did BT make 'cheap' and 'not
>>>> cheap' phones.
>>>
>>> No. Only cheap ones
>>>
>> Did BT ever actually make anything? Isn´t all manufacturing contracted
>> out and then gets a BT logo at the end....
>>
>Not since the days of the bakelite phones.
>
>It's all cheap chinesium shit.
>How many people have to reboot their BT routers?
>I never have to reboot my draytek
>
This one is Malaysia.

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 06/03/2025 17:20, David Wade wrote:
[...]
> > Did BT ever actually make anything? Isn´t all manufacturing contracted
> > out and then gets a BT logo at the end....
> >
> Not since the days of the bakelite phones.


Not even then.  They were made by the big manufacturing companies to GPO
designs.  Apparently there was a code on them which identified the
manufacturer.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

In article <m2ti8jF7qjcU1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> scribeth thus
>David Wade wrote:
>
>> Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>> is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>> over FM because there was no hiss.
>
>Digital phones usually inject "comfort tone" to avoid silence, because
>people think of silence as a dropped connection.

Confidence tone, wish they'd bring it back!..
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

In article <qf5jsjd09b11v3l9bovdc9nvf8raucriut@4ax.com>, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> scribeth thus
>On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 21:58:30 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On 05/03/2025 18:38, Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:24:11 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/03/2025 15:33, Scott wrote:
>>>>> On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
>>>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?)
>or
>>>>>> a standalone SIP provider?
>>>>>
>>>>> It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
>>>>> maybe I am wrong.
>>>>
>>>> It is but most use some kind of lock-in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied
>VOIP
>>>>>> phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice'
>is
>>>>>> analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>>>>>> handsets with it)
>>>>>
>>>> The router ZEN supply has VOIP PABX facilities built in, so as well as
>>>> connecting DECT and "POTS" style handsets, it also allows SIP
>>>> connections. I have a second Fritz!Box on my Spanish home which connects
>>>> to the one in the UK over a VPN and has a DECT phone on that...
>>>>
>>>>> The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
>>>>> manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
>>>>> corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
>>>>> phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
>>>>> cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
>>>>> plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
>>>>> phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.
>>>>
>>>> I have the same setup, although I use voipfone.co.uk not Zen's Digital
>>>> Voice. My DECT base station plugs into the Fritz!box and the quality is
>>>> fine, so I think the issue is the phones you are using...
>>>>
>>>> .. you can connect a digital phone but it would connect over the
>>>> network. Most any SIP phone should work, but they are fiddly to
>>>> configure....
>>>>
>>>> I have one of these, but think a DECT would be simpler...
>>>>
>>> Thanks, but I already have a cordless phone that works perfectly
>>> (unsurprisingly as it was made by Fritz). My question is whether
>>> corded digital phones exist (as it seems odd that the corded phone has
>>> more background noise than the the cordless one).
>
>>Depends on what you mean by a digital corded phone. The phone socket on
>>the router is Analogue only. To have a digital corded phone you need a
>>digital interface, which needs a digital protocol. So a "SIP" phone
>>which has a TCPIP connection and plugs into an RJ45 is to all intensive
>>purposes a "Digital Corded Phone". It has a wire and speaks a digital
>>protocol.
>>
>>Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>>is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>>over FM because there was no hiss.
>>


>Very good analogy with DAB. I think DAB sounds very good with R4 and
>R5L but not so good with music stations, which seems to me the ideal
>properties for a phone.

Simple, it costs a lot more for more bits on DAB MUX's hence the low bit
rates. However the DAB 2 HEE codec makes a much better job of it
overall..

FM with a decent aerial and receiving tuner can be very good indeed:)...


--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

In article <vqcnb4$32sob$1@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harrogate3@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
>On Thu 06/03/2025 12:35, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 21:58:30 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2025 18:38, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:24:11 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/03/2025 15:33, Scott wrote:
>>>>>> On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
>>>>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?)
>or
>>>>>>> a standalone SIP provider?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
>>>>>> maybe I am wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is but most use some kind of lock-in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied
>VOIP
>>>>>>> phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice'
>is
>>>>>>> analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>>>>>>> handsets with it)
>>>>>>
>>>>> The router ZEN supply has VOIP PABX facilities built in, so as well as
>>>>> connecting DECT and "POTS" style handsets, it also allows SIP
>>>>> connections. I have a second Fritz!Box on my Spanish home which connects
>>>>> to the one in the UK over a VPN and has a DECT phone on that...
>>>>>
>>>>>> The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
>>>>>> manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
>>>>>> corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
>>>>>> phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
>>>>>> cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
>>>>>> plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
>>>>>> phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the same setup, although I use voipfone.co.uk not Zen's Digital
>>>>> Voice. My DECT base station plugs into the Fritz!box and the quality is
>>>>> fine, so I think the issue is the phones you are using...
>>>>>
>>>>> .. you can connect a digital phone but it would connect over the
>>>>> network. Most any SIP phone should work, but they are fiddly to
>>>>> configure....
>>>>>
>>>>> I have one of these, but think a DECT would be simpler...
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks, but I already have a cordless phone that works perfectly
>>>> (unsurprisingly as it was made by Fritz). My question is whether
>>>> corded digital phones exist (as it seems odd that the corded phone has
>>>> more background noise than the the cordless one).
>>
>>> Depends on what you mean by a digital corded phone. The phone socket on
>>> the router is Analogue only. To have a digital corded phone you need a
>>> digital interface, which needs a digital protocol. So a "SIP" phone
>>> which has a TCPIP connection and plugs into an RJ45 is to all intensive
>>> purposes a "Digital Corded Phone". It has a wire and speaks a digital
>>> protocol.
>>>
>>> Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>>> is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>>> over FM because there was no hiss.
>>>
>> Very good analogy with DAB. I think DAB sounds very good with R4 and
>> R5L but not so good with music stations, which seems to me the ideal
>> properties for a phone.
>
>
>The people who invented DAB had foresight and knew that conventional
>analogue was on its way out, viz. Droitwich 198KHz LW going off at the
>end of June.

Yes sad to see it go, its about the only one on LW now thats, still
useful, in large sparse populated countries where fM or DAB would cost a
furore to cover..



>They also realised that most radio listening these days is either on
>your smartphone or in the car so they aimed DAB specifically at the car
>market and matched the quality accordingly.
>This of course is in the UK. Other places such as Germany run DAB
>(sorry, they now use DAB+ exclusively) at a much higher data rate which
>can match or exceed CD quality at home and provide amazing clarity and
>depth of sound in the car.
>
>

Yes but being Germany they'll have an engineering director on the board
the BBC doesn't need one anymore;!...

--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:35:45 +0000, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk>
wrote:

>In article <m2ti8jF7qjcU1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
><usenet@andyburns.uk> scribeth thus
>>David Wade wrote:
>>
>>> Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>>> is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>>> over FM because there was no hiss.
>>
>>Digital phones usually inject "comfort tone" to avoid silence, because
>>people think of silence as a dropped connection.
>
>Confidence tone, wish they'd bring it back!..

There is never any silence when I am on the phone :-)

On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:39:40 +0000, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk>
wrote:

>In article <qf5jsjd09b11v3l9bovdc9nvf8raucriut@4ax.com>, Scott
><newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> scribeth thus
>>On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 21:58:30 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 05/03/2025 18:38, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 18:24:11 +0100, David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/03/2025 15:33, Scott wrote:
>>>>>> On 05 Mar 2025 10:56:55 +0000 (GMT), Theo
>>>>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I understood that any phone could be plugged into the router for VOIP.
>>>>>>>> However, one of my phones is prone to making a buzzing noise. Another
>>>>>>>> one is better but still has more background noise than the cordless
>>>>>>>> phone supplied by the ISP. Is there a special phone, or any settings
>>>>>>>> to be changed, to allow a wired phone to be connected to VOIP (or is a
>>>>>>>> cordless phone inherently better)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whose VOIP platform are you using?  An ISP's 'digital voice' (which ISP?)
>>or
>>>>>>> a standalone SIP provider?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is Zen Internet. I assumed digital voice was a form of VOIP but
>>>>>> maybe I am wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is but most use some kind of lock-in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most ISPs won't let you have the credentials to connect a user-supplied
>>VOIP
>>>>>>> phone to their digital voice platform.  ie paradoxically 'digital voice'
>>is
>>>>>>> analogue phones only.  (or possibly DECT, if your router supports pairing
>>>>>>> handsets with it)
>>>>>>
>>>>> The router ZEN supply has VOIP PABX facilities built in, so as well as
>>>>> connecting DECT and "POTS" style handsets, it also allows SIP
>>>>> connections. I have a second Fritz!Box on my Spanish home which connects
>>>>> to the one in the UK over a VPN and has a DECT phone on that...
>>>>>
>>>>>> The cordless phone was suppled by Zen and made by the same
>>>>>> manufacturer as the router (Fritz). There is no problem with this. The
>>>>>> corded phone is analogue and plugged into the router. I have tried two
>>>>>> phones. One is noisier than the other but neither is as clear as the
>>>>>> cordless. I was just wondering if there is a digital phone that can be
>>>>>> plugged into the router. It would seem paradoxical to use a cordless
>>>>>> phone at my desk when the router is only 1 metre away.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the same setup, although I use voipfone.co.uk not Zen's Digital
>>>>> Voice. My DECT base station plugs into the Fritz!box and the quality is
>>>>> fine, so I think the issue is the phones you are using...
>>>>>
>>>>> .. you can connect a digital phone but it would connect over the
>>>>> network. Most any SIP phone should work, but they are fiddly to
>>>>> configure....
>>>>>
>>>>> I have one of these, but think a DECT would be simpler...
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks, but I already have a cordless phone that works perfectly
>>>> (unsurprisingly as it was made by Fritz). My question is whether
>>>> corded digital phones exist (as it seems odd that the corded phone has
>>>> more background noise than the the cordless one).
>>
>>>Depends on what you mean by a digital corded phone. The phone socket on
>>>the router is Analogue only. To have a digital corded phone you need a
>>>digital interface, which needs a digital protocol. So a "SIP" phone
>>>which has a TCPIP connection and plugs into an RJ45 is to all intensive
>>>purposes a "Digital Corded Phone". It has a wire and speaks a digital
>>>protocol.
>>>
>>>Bit surprised you are surprised corded hand set is noisy. Thermal noise
>>>is the bane of analog systems. When asked many said they prefered DAB
>>>over FM because there was no hiss.
>>>
>
>
>>Very good analogy with DAB. I think DAB sounds very good with R4 and
>>R5L but not so good with music stations, which seems to me the ideal
>>properties for a phone.
>
>Simple, it costs a lot more for more bits on DAB MUX's hence the low bit
>rates. However the DAB 2 HEE codec makes a much better job of it
>overall..
>
>FM with a decent aerial and receiving tuner can be very good indeed:)...

Less on in a car though, which is I think where the debate started.
And certainly less so for Radio 5 Live (certain times of night
excepted).