🚀 go-pugleaf

andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie) wrote:

I hope I can get in here before the inevitable flaming and bullshit
commence, but you never know.  Because you're not just some student
trying to get us to write your paper for you, and because you're a
regular who's contributed to this group, and because you can paint like a
motherfucker, here's my honest take on your questions.  Please keep in
mind that I don't necessarily represent any identifiable demographic, I'm
not hindered by any particular adherence to common sense, and you well
know that I tend to be a prickly motherfucker.

> 1.     Why would you avoid buying a kit bike?  If you don't mind, be
> specific.  "No resale value."  "I can't wrench worth a damn."  "The
> parts never fit."  You get the idea.

I wouldn't buy a bike kit (I assume that's what you mean as opposed to an
already assembled kit bike that somebody else built and is selling,
right?) for a number of reasons.  Nobody I've seen has the variety of
parts available to choose from to allow me to really build a bike to my
preferences (see Stokely to fully understand what I'm saying).

Bike kits that I've seen always cheap out on some component or other that
I wouldn't want to cheap out on.  Engine, tranny, suspension, frame...one
or more of them is going to be unacceptable quality to me.

A kit bike is often damned hard to title, license, and insure.

Bike kits have a reputation of not going together well (deserved or not).
It's really hard to assure quality control and acceptable fit and finish
if you're buying components from different manufacturers, and when they
don't fit it's difficult to know to whom to go for correction.  The
people that market the kit?  The catalog you bought it through? The
component manufacturer (For which you have no name, no contact
information and no real standing, since the component manufacturer didn't
sell it to you, they sold it to somebody else)?  If it's two components,
which one's wrong?

There are warranty issues as well.  And as a kit manufacturer are you
going to warranty the kit?  If so what are you going to warranty that it
does?  Fits together despite crossthreaded bolts, lost bits and pieces,
being assembled by a drunken orangutan using two rocks and a screwdriver?
Really?


> 2.     Why would you want to build a kit bike?  "Pride of doing it
> myself."  "Got something that looks different than most other bikes."
> "My son and I can do it as a project together."

I can understand the urge to build a kit bike.  Folks without enough
knowledge to piecemeal one together themselves can get enough to get them
going in a useful direction with a kit.  People with limited time to
scrounge parts (or find out what parts to scrounge) could probably
benefit from a kit.  The more complete the kit, the better those kind of
customers would be served.  They may even think that they were building
something unique.

For me, though, it's not the way to go.  My taste, my style is too
eclectic, too off center for a kit to really be useful.  And I like
bodging my own stuff, making disparate things work together, and
realizing my own eccentric vision too much to work from a kit.  Kits have
both too much stuff and too little stuff to be useful to me.


But as I said, I'm not in the middle of anybody's demographic in this
particular regard.

> I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
> something like this for years and things are finally starting to fall
> into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
> lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.

Well, been there and done that.  Been both rich and poor and my vote will
always say go after what you want.  Being in business for yourself
carries rewards that being a salaried person doesn't.  As well as risks.

Go for it and good luck to you.
--
Spunky the Tuna
AH62 BS69 SENS DOF#R LSMFT EIEIO PDQ op cit
the more hurry, the speed...

Spunky the Tuna <spunkythetuna@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<Xns94C8F02961F5Aspunkythetunabellsou@216.77.188.18>...
> andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie) wrote:
>
> I hope I can get in here before the inevitable flaming and bullshit
> commence, but you never know.

I was afraid some of that might happen...hope not too much, though.

> Because you're not just some student
> trying to get us to write your paper for you, and because you're a
> regular who's contributed to this group, and because you can paint like a
> motherfucker, here's my honest take on your questions.

Thanks for the compliment and for the honest answers...can't ask for
more than that.

< Please keep in
> mind that I don't necessarily represent any identifiable demographic, I'm
> not hindered by any particular adherence to common sense, and you well
> know that I tend to be a prickly motherfucker.
>
> > 1.     Why would you avoid buying a kit bike?  If you don't mind, be
> > specific.  "No resale value."  "I can't wrench worth a damn."  "The
> > parts never fit."  You get the idea.
>
> I wouldn't buy a bike kit (I assume that's what you mean as opposed to an
> already assembled kit bike that somebody else built and is selling,
> right?) for a number of reasons.  Nobody I've seen has the variety of
> parts available to choose from to allow me to really build a bike to my
> preferences (see Stokely to fully understand what I'm saying).
>
> Bike kits that I've seen always cheap out on some component or other that
> I wouldn't want to cheap out on.  Engine, tranny, suspension, frame...one
> or more of them is going to be unacceptable quality to me.
>
> A kit bike is often damned hard to title, license, and insure.
>
> Bike kits have a reputation of not going together well (deserved or not).
> It's really hard to assure quality control and acceptable fit and finish
> if you're buying components from different manufacturers, and when they
> don't fit it's difficult to know to whom to go for correction.  The
> people that market the kit?  The catalog you bought it through? The
> component manufacturer (For which you have no name, no contact
> information and no real standing, since the component manufacturer didn't
> sell it to you, they sold it to somebody else)?  If it's two components,
> which one's wrong?
>
> There are warranty issues as well.  And as a kit manufacturer are you
> going to warranty the kit?  If so what are you going to warranty that it
> does?  Fits together despite crossthreaded bolts, lost bits and pieces,
> being assembled by a drunken orangutan using two rocks and a screwdriver?
> Really?
>
>
> > 2.     Why would you want to build a kit bike?  "Pride of doing it
> > myself."  "Got something that looks different than most other bikes."
> > "My son and I can do it as a project together."
>
> I can understand the urge to build a kit bike.  Folks without enough
> knowledge to piecemeal one together themselves can get enough to get them
> going in a useful direction with a kit.  People with limited time to
> scrounge parts (or find out what parts to scrounge) could probably
> benefit from a kit.  The more complete the kit, the better those kind of
> customers would be served.  They may even think that they were building
> something unique.
>
> For me, though, it's not the way to go.  My taste, my style is too
> eclectic, too off center for a kit to really be useful.  And I like
> bodging my own stuff, making disparate things work together, and
> realizing my own eccentric vision too much to work from a kit.  Kits have
> both too much stuff and too little stuff to be useful to me.
>
>
> But as I said, I'm not in the middle of anybody's demographic in this
> particular regard.
>
> > I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
> > something like this for years and things are finally starting to fall
> > into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
> > lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.
>
> Well, been there and done that.  Been both rich and poor and my vote will
> always say go after what you want.  Being in business for yourself
> carries rewards that being a salaried person doesn't.  As well as risks.
>
> Go for it and good luck to you.

Spunky the Tuna,

Those are exactly the kind of things we're lookin' for. 'Preciate you
taking the time to help me out.

Andy aka Big Stinkie

On 11 Apr 2004 18:40:13 -0700, andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie)
writ:

>I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
>something like this for years and things are finally starting to fall
>into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
>lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.

Th' thing I'd wonder about is what will distinguish you?  Without
that, seems like a pretty difficult way to make a buck.

--
Redbeard Emeritus "The Dirt Devil, with a built-in Crevice Tool" (c)
Do you polka?

Redbeard Emeritus <redbeard@volcano.net> wrote in message news:<tbgl701fh4nktred55khftlavus77q8fm8@4ax.com>...
> On 11 Apr 2004 18:40:13 -0700, andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie)
> writ:
>
> >I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
> >something like this for years and things are finally starting to fall
> >into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
> >lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.
>
> Th' thing I'd wonder about is what will distinguish you?  Without
> that, seems like a pretty difficult way to make a buck.

Just tell 'em it's a "Big Stinkie" bike and folks will be knocking down
the door.

Seriously, my partners are experienced businessmen who
retired early from the corporate world, and both dealt
with the financial and legal aspects of major companies
here and abroad. Our weak point is marketing, as none of
us have much experience in that field. I really don't know
shit about any of it, actually.  They picked me because
we're friends and I have contacts in the motorcycle world
that they wouldn't be able to cultivate in a timely manner.
They pretty much slapped a comprehensive business plan together
in a short while, and now we're focusing on just what you
mentioned - how to get people to sit up and notice our stuff.

Wish me luck,

Andy aka Big Stinkie

>I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
>something like this for years and things are finally starting to fall
>into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
>lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.<

I'm the kinda guy that would buy a kit bike.  I don't give a shit
about warranty, and I can fix fit issues.  I guess I would be
concerned with the following:

1.  Why should I buy your kit?  Right now you could throw a rock and
hit a custom bike maker, then the rock would bounce and hit a kit bike
provider.

2.  I want a really, really detailed manual and parts list, even
though I'd never look at 'em.

3.  What kind of tech support would you provide, if any?

4.  Can I put together my own options?

5.  Do you have a website with a ridiculous amount of data?

6.  Are ALL parts provided?  Or just MOST?

7.  Are your bolts good, or are they Custom Chrap quality?

That is all I can think of without a refill...

cram
'79 FL Bulldog
BS#TripleDeuce

On 12 Apr 2004 15:37:10 -0700, andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie)
writ:

>Redbeard Emeritus <redbeard@volcano.net> wrote in message news:<tbgl701fh4nktred55khftlavus77q8fm8@4ax.com>...
>> On 11 Apr 2004 18:40:13 -0700, andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie)
>> writ:
>>
>> >I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
>> >something like this for years and things are finally starting to fall
>> >into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
>> >lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.
>>
>> Th' thing I'd wonder about is what will distinguish you?  Without
>> that, seems like a pretty difficult way to make a buck.

>Just tell 'em it's a "Big Stinkie" bike and folks will be knocking down
>the door.

<g>  Goin on th' tank, huh?

>Seriously, my partners are experienced businessmen who
>retired early from the corporate world, and both dealt
>with the financial and legal aspects of major companies
>here and abroad. Our weak point is marketing, as none of
>us have much experience in that field. I really don't know
>shit about any of it, actually.  They picked me because
>we're friends and I have contacts in the motorcycle world
>that they wouldn't be able to cultivate in a timely manner.
>They pretty much slapped a comprehensive business plan together
>in a short while, and
>now we're focusing on just what you mentioned -
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>how to get people to sit up and notice our stuff.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Wish me luck,

You got that wish.  Butt I'd Shirley think this is where you'd
*start*.  It's not an empty market.

--
Redbeard Emeritus "The Dirt Devil, with a built-in Crevice Tool" (c)
Do you polka?

andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie) wrote in message news:<2e492522.0404111740.396d0abd@posting.google.com>...
> >
> 1.	Why would you avoid buying a kit bike?  If you don't mind, be
> specific.  "No resale value."  "I can't wrench worth a damn."  "The
> parts never fit."  You get the idea.

Simple...I am the guy who has enough knowledge to pick out all his own
parts and build what he wants. I've done it before. That being said,
the only enticement you could offer me is if you could do it at a
significantly lower price, which I don't think you can.  ANd from my
standpoint, if a person has the ability to actually assemble one of
those kits in a proper manner, they probably have the knowledge to
assemble a parts list of thier own. So, why do they need your kit?


>
> 2.	Why would you want to build a kit bike?


Something cheap to ride. But kits aren't cheap.  SOme folks I know
would want to do it just so they could have the experience of the
build, and take great pride in thier work. But those that take great
pride often do a lot of investigating about what they are going to
build, and with so many other cheezy kits out there, why would yours
stand out?


Hey, you asked, I told. No offense given, I hope.


MrScottly#54

andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie) wrote in message news:<2e492522.0404111740.396d0abd@posting.google.com>...
> 1.	Why would you avoid buying a kit bike?  If you don't mind, be
> specific.  "No resale value."  "I can't wrench worth a damn."  "The
> parts never fit."  You get the idea.

All three of these reasons would make me hesitate on a kit bike.

> 2.	Why would you want to build a kit bike?  "Pride of doing it
> myself."  "Got something that looks different than most other bikes."
> "My son and I can do it as a project together."

I don't have a son but all of those sound like good reasons. For me
part of it would be cost.
Buy a Super Glide, put a few thousand $ into it to make it look unique
and nice or pay probably even more for a bike I have to put together
myself while I'm still trying to find time to have something like a
life.
I'd go with the Super Glide if I wanted to spend over 10K on a bike.

> I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
> something like this for years and things are finally starting to fall
> into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
> lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.

If you do this I hope it works out.
An idea- ofter a kit or three that are very low budget yet still look
good- not all Ness stuff and super "clean" parts but still somewhat
cool looking. If you can price it below most Harley BT's you might get
a lot of biters. Or maybe not if the kit bike types want everything in
chrome with the latest expensive weird softail frame.
What the hell do I know... Good luck.

Jon
'04 XL1200R

big stinkie wrote...
> Redbeard Emeritus wrote...
> > On 11 Apr 2004 18:40:13 -0700, andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie)
> > writ:
> >
> > >I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
> > >something like this for years and things are finally starting to fall
> > >into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
> > >lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.
> >
> > Th' thing I'd wonder about is what will distinguish you?  Without
> > that, seems like a pretty difficult way to make a buck.
>
> Just tell 'em it's a "Big Stinkie" bike and folks will be knocking down
> the door.
>
> Seriously, my partners are experienced businessmen who
> retired early from the corporate world, and both dealt
> with the financial and legal aspects of major companies
> here and abroad. Our weak point is marketing, as none of
> us have much experience in that field. I really don't know
> shit about any of it, actually.  They picked me because
> we're friends and I have contacts in the motorcycle world
> that they wouldn't be able to cultivate in a timely manner.
> They pretty much slapped a comprehensive business plan together
> in a short while, and now we're focusing on just what you
> mentioned - how to get people to sit up and notice our stuff.

You could send one to a magazine to put together, but be prepaired for the
readers to find out if there assembly has issues.

> Andy aka Big Stinkie

--
Tud
AH#115 SENS BS#111 LFS#32 FLF MISFIT
'70 Triumph T120R Chopper "The Death Trap"
'72 Triumph T100R project
http://ah115.com

"big stinkie" <andythe@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2e492522.0404121437.49400c5e@posting.google.com
> Redbeard Emeritus <redbeard@volcano.net> wrote in message
> news:<tbgl701fh4nktred55khftlavus77q8fm8@4ax.com>...
>> On 11 Apr 2004 18:40:13 -0700, andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie)
>> writ:
>>
>>> I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
>>> something like this for years and things are finally starting to
>>> fall
>>> into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
>>> lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.
>>
>> Th' thing I'd wonder about is what will distinguish you?  Without
>> that, seems like a pretty difficult way to make a buck.
>
> Just tell 'em it's a "Big Stinkie" bike and folks will be knocking
> down
> the door.
>
> Seriously, my partners are experienced businessmen who
> retired early from the corporate world, and both dealt
> with the financial and legal aspects of major companies
> here and abroad. Our weak point is marketing, as none of
> us have much experience in that field. I really don't know
> shit about any of it, actually.  They picked me because
> we're friends and I have contacts in the motorcycle world
> that they wouldn't be able to cultivate in a timely manner.
> They pretty much slapped a comprehensive business plan together
> in a short while, and now we're focusing on just what you
> mentioned - how to get people to sit up and notice our stuff.
>
> Wish me luck,
>
> Andy aka Big Stinkie

I can tell you what would get my attention; the ability to spec something
out the way *I* want it and wind up with a kit that I can count on that will
go together without a lot of mismatch, missing parts and fabrication. The
BYOB kits I've seen are OK but don't appeal to my PanBob sensibilities.

JD

"JD" <jdb5025nospam@yahoo.com> wrote

>
> I can tell you what would get my attention; the ability to spec something
> out the way *I* want it and wind up with a kit that I can count on that will
> go together without a lot of mismatch, missing parts and fabrication. The
> BYOB kits I've seen are OK but don't appeal to my PanBob sensibilities.
>
> JD

*Exactly* what I was thinking. I wouldn't want a kit bike that somebody else
designed, but if I could go to a website or such, pick out certain design elements,
and have somebody sell me the appropriate parts as a kit, I would be interested.
I like the old bobber look myself, and ain't interested in the current custom
look. Mix and match options would be the key to get me to buy. More work
on the sellers part, though.
--
Roach - Hoodlums©VMC Social Director
PH©#2, BS#196, DOF#yes  MANS, SENS
'98FXDirty "DeerSlinger"






>
>

"MrScottly" <scottly@yahoo.com> wrote


  ANd from my
> standpoint, if a person has the ability to actually assemble one of
> those kits in a proper manner, they probably have the knowledge to
> assemble a parts list of thier own.

That's a trade-off. I might have the ability to assemble all the parts,
and the ability to research everything I need, but I may only want to
build, and not research, search, and buy different stuff.  So I could see
buying a kit and paying somebody to put all necessary parts into
a crate for me so all I needed to do was play in my garage instead of my
office.

Of course, I would expect *every* part, nut and bolt to be there.


--
Roach - Hoodlums©VMC Social Director
PH©#2, BS#196, DOF#yes  MANS, SENS
'98FXDirty "DeerSlinger"

"Roach" <Bill_Roccia@earthlink.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:7TIec.5386$l75.4084@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net
> "JD" <jdb5025nospam@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>
>> I can tell you what would get my attention; the ability to spec
>> something
>> out the way *I* want it and wind up with a kit that I can count on
>> that will
>> go together without a lot of mismatch, missing parts and
>> fabrication. The
>> BYOB kits I've seen are OK but don't appeal to my PanBob
>> sensibilities.
>>
>> JD
>
> *Exactly* what I was thinking. I wouldn't want a kit bike that
> somebody else designed, but if I could go to a website or such, pick
> out certain design elements, and have somebody sell me the
> appropriate parts as a kit, I would be interested.
> I like the old bobber look myself, and ain't interested in the
> current custom look. Mix and match options would be the key to get me
> to buy. More work
> on the sellers part, though.

How hard could it be for us old school guys? Rigid frame w/4"+ down tubes,
'bob tanks, 'bob rear fender, WG w/dual discs, Panhead motor or a slabside
Shovel w/ a 5 speed kicker and a real chain final drive. Throw in a 2 up
seat and a short bitch bar and I'm a happy man. Shit, paint it rattle can
flat black and call it a kit rat.

JD

my main reason not to start would be (here in the netherlands, europe)
the difficulty to get it licenced, and the time it takes to get it licenced.
If I remember correctly twice a year you can offer bikes and cars to
be licenced, if you've even got one detail wrong you have to wait
half a year to try again. And wouldn't yo want to ride your new
bike immediately ?

Bas


"big stinkie" <andythe@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2e492522.0404111740.396d0abd@posting.google.com...
> Greetings and hallucinations.  Drinks for the whole place.  Where'd I
> get all these non-sequential, used $20 bills for the drinks, you ask?
> Took out a small business loan, bought a sawed off shotgun and ski
> mask, and started my own part-time job.  Now if I can only figure out
> how to get this purple ink off my face and hands.   Badabing
>
> Seriously, I'm thinking of starting a company with some friends of
> mine, and our goal is to eventually sell motorcycle kits.  We talked
> with the Small Business Administration and were assigned a mentor who
> is guiding us through the maze of starting a business.  We discussed
> the marketing aspect, and he told us we should find out what might
> keep people from buying a kit bike, and what might draw someone to
> build a kit bike.  He suggested that we simply talk to riders and ask
> 'em.
>
> So, I figured there wasn't a better place than right here to find a
> tremendous cross section of riders with varying degrees of experience
> with bikes, who seem to have no trouble expressing their opinions, and
> are usually willing to selflessly help out a fellow patron. Enough
> sucking up already.  With all that in mind, I'll keep buying if you'll
> try to answer these two questions:
>
> 1. Why would you avoid buying a kit bike?  If you don't mind, be
> specific.  "No resale value."  "I can't wrench worth a damn."  "The
> parts never fit."  You get the idea.
>
> 2. Why would you want to build a kit bike?  "Pride of doing it
> myself."  "Got something that looks different than most other bikes."
> "My son and I can do it as a project together."
>
> I'll really appreciate your help with this.  I've wanted to do
> something like this for years and things are finally starting to fall
> into place.  I might end up being a fricken millionaire, or I might
> lose my ass, but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.
>
> Andy aka Big Stinkie

scottly@yahoo.com (MrScottly) wrote in message news:<3cee843f.0404121718.1605ad61@posting.google.com>...
> andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie) wrote in message news:<2e492522.0404111740.396d0abd@posting.google.com>...
> > >
> > 1.	Why would you avoid buying a kit bike?  If you don't mind, be
> > specific.  "No resale value."  "I can't wrench worth a damn."  "The
> > parts never fit."  You get the idea.
>
> Simple...I am the guy who has enough knowledge to pick out all his own
> parts and build what he wants. I've done it before. That being said,
> the only enticement you could offer me is if you could do it at a
> significantly lower price, which I don't think you can.  ANd from my
> standpoint, if a person has the ability to actually assemble one of
> those kits in a proper manner, they probably have the knowledge to
> assemble a parts list of thier own. So, why do they need your kit?
>
>
> >
> > 2.	Why would you want to build a kit bike?
>
>
> Something cheap to ride. But kits aren't cheap.  SOme folks I know
> would want to do it just so they could have the experience of the
> build, and take great pride in thier work. But those that take great
> pride often do a lot of investigating about what they are going to
> build, and with so many other cheezy kits out there, why would yours
> stand out?
>
>
> Hey, you asked, I told. No offense given, I hope.
>
>
> MrScottly#54

No offense taken. I wanted real-life, frank and to-the-point answers,
good and bad. These replies are very valuable.

I guess I'd better fork over some more cash for more drinks. Here ya
go.

Andy aka Big Stinkie

"big stinkie" <andythe@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2e492522.0404121437.49400c5e@posting.google.com...

> They pretty much slapped a comprehensive business plan together
> in a short while, and now we're focusing on just what you
> mentioned - how to get people to sit up and notice our stuff.

well, maybe it's just me, i'd think the market you're going after is the
key.

 if all you want to build is trailer queens, i'd say it was over saturated.

if, on the other hand, you want to build something that handles well, is
comfortable to ride, and has some eye appeal, then you might have a niche to
fill.

then you have to promote the hell out things.

it's a big thing, getting people to "sit up and take notice".

and it generally takes big money.

--
Easy, #39

>>"MrScottly" wrote
>>  ANd from my
>> standpoint, if a person has the ability to actually assemble one of
>> those kits in a proper manner, they probably have the knowledge to
>> assemble a parts list of thier own.

>"Roach" wrote:
>That's a trade-off. I might have the ability to assemble all the parts,
>and the ability to research everything I need, but I may only want to
>build, and not research, search, and buy different stuff.  So I could see
>buying a kit and paying somebody to put all necessary parts into
>a crate for me so all I needed to do was play in my garage instead of my
>office.
>
>Of course, I would expect *every* part, nut and bolt to be there.

And I would assume a lay bike builder would think that all they need
is the $50 Wal-Mart tool kit the wife bought them for Christmas to
assemble it, thus they would expect every part to *fit*, without the
extra investment of a bunch of grinders, cutters, welders, prybars etc
to make it so.

Let's face it Andy, you're trying to offer an adult Erector set, and
IIRC, when I was a kid mine came with a screwdriver and wrench
included...
--
Roger
'58-'04 Whatzit
'03 FLHTI
TOMKAT  BS#150  SENS  NEWT#1
www.utm.edu/~relmore/Whatzit/MAMBM

andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie) wrote in message news:<2e492522.0404111740.396d0abd@posting.google.com>...
(snip my own message about kit bikes and your opinions)

Thanks to all who helped me out.  The opinions presented were
informative and proved to be very valuable.

Thanks, and everyone grab a cold one...another round on me.

Andy aka Big Stinkie

On 11 Apr 2004 18:40:13 -0700, andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie)
uttered something about:

>1.	Why would you avoid buying a kit bike?  If you don't mind, be
>specific.  "No resale value."  "I can't wrench worth a damn."  "The
>parts never fit."  You get the idea.
>
>2.	Why would you want to build a kit bike?  "Pride of doing it
>myself."  "Got something that looks different than most other bikes."
>"My son and I can do it as a project together."

Andy,

I'm relatively new here so I don't often have much to contribute -
more of a lurker and learner.

Before I bought "Mo" last summer I considered building a kit and asked
the same questions of myself that you are posing to the group.

"Why would I want to build a kit bike?"
1. I thought it would be cheaper than a new bike.
2. I thought the kit would have parts that would bolt together without
having to do a lot of research because I had *very* limited knowledge
of bike construction (OK - NO knowledge).
3. I thought it would be tremendously satisfying to ride something
that I had built myself.

"Why would I not want to build a kit bike?"
1. When I would look at the used Harley sites on the web I would not
even give a second look to anything that said "custom".  So, if I
wasn't willing to consider buying something that someone else put
together what chance would I have of ever selling a bike that I built
when the time came?
2. When I really started adding things up it was not really much
cheaper than a fairly new used Harley.

So, what I did was I bought an old Harley that needed lots of work.
This basically gave me all the perceived advantages of the kit bike
without the disadvantages:
1. Even after sticking a ton of money into a frame-up rebuilt my total
cost will still be less than a lot of kits.
2. I did not have to research every component for fit and
compatibility - although all the things that were missing or needed
replacing on the bike still required *LOTS* of research.
3. Doing a frame-up rebuild gives me the satisfaction of riding
something that I built myself, and I will know *every*thing about that
bike when I'm done.
4. It's a genuine H-D.  When I'm ready to sell it there will be
someone willing to buy it and being a '57 Pan with a certain amount of
nostalgia should make it fairly easy to sell.  (Not that I bought this
bike as an "investment", but someday I'll quit riding - when I can't
kick it anymore.)

But, seems to me that the crowd here at the VB&G is already pretty
solidly in the anti-kit-bike camp.  What you need to do is find a
group that has already gone the kit-bike route and find out what they
liked and didn't like about the kit they built, then capitalize on
that to differentiate your product.

FWIW there you have my rambling thoughts on kit bikes.

Thanks for the iced cappuccino.

Regards,
57panhead
'57 FLH "Mo"
http://57panhead.com

57panhead <change_this_to_just_dave@57panhead.com> wrote in message news:<na7r70det71eek13cuokcjc0hmqh5piivo@4ax.com>...
> On 11 Apr 2004 18:40:13 -0700, andythe@earthlink.net (big stinkie)
> uttered something about:
>
(snip a little bit)
>
> I'm relatively new here so I don't often have much to contribute -
> more of a lurker and learner.
>
> Before I bought "Mo" last summer I considered building a kit and asked
> the same questions of myself that you are posing to the group.
>
> "Why would I want to build a kit bike?"
> 1. I thought it would be cheaper than a new bike.
> 2. I thought the kit would have parts that would bolt together without
> having to do a lot of research because I had *very* limited knowledge
> of bike construction (OK - NO knowledge).
> 3. I thought it would be tremendously satisfying to ride something
> that I had built myself.
>
> "Why would I not want to build a kit bike?"
> 1. When I would look at the used Harley sites on the web I would not
> even give a second look to anything that said "custom".  So, if I
> wasn't willing to consider buying something that someone else put
> together what chance would I have of ever selling a bike that I built
> when the time came?
> 2. When I really started adding things up it was not really much
> cheaper than a fairly new used Harley.
>
> So, what I did was I bought an old Harley that needed lots of work.
> This basically gave me all the perceived advantages of the kit bike
> without the disadvantages:
> 1. Even after sticking a ton of money into a frame-up rebuilt my total
> cost will still be less than a lot of kits.
> 2. I did not have to research every component for fit and
> compatibility - although all the things that were missing or needed
> replacing on the bike still required *LOTS* of research.
> 3. Doing a frame-up rebuild gives me the satisfaction of riding
> something that I built myself, and I will know *every*thing about that
> bike when I'm done.
> 4. It's a genuine H-D.  When I'm ready to sell it there will be
> someone willing to buy it and being a '57 Pan with a certain amount of
> nostalgia should make it fairly easy to sell.  (Not that I bought this
> bike as an "investment", but someday I'll quit riding - when I can't
> kick it anymore.)
>
> But, seems to me that the crowd here at the VB&G is already pretty
> solidly in the anti-kit-bike camp.  What you need to do is find a
> group that has already gone the kit-bike route and find out what they
> liked and didn't like about the kit they built, then capitalize on
> that to differentiate your product.

More good opinions.  Thanks.  I did a somewhat similar thing, but did
it with new parts.  Built a custom from the frame up. Didn't do any
acutal wrenching other than re-jetting the carbeu...carbara...(I can't
spell that word.) Just painted and assembled it, but I learned about
what fits and what doesn't.

And, yeah, I probably spent more on it than I would have by buying a
good used bike that has all the whistles and bells that mine doesn't.
(Are turn signals considered a whistle or a bell?) But for me, having
a bike that is different than all my riding buddies and gets lots of
folks looking at it, as well as saying I put it together myself, is
worth it. But that's just me. Different strokes. One of my friends
says he likes mine OK, but wouldn't have a custom *or a kit.* He says
he wants an acutal HD between his knees and it has to look like it did
when they built it. Stock! I've always wanted to be a bit different
than my peers. In high school (1969 to show my age) I had a '58 Chevy
that I painted red/white/blue with stars. Closet thing to a custom car
that an 18 year old could have in Podunkville Nebraska. Now THAT got
some looks back then.

I've toyed with the idea of buying a basket case or a fixer-upper to
restore, but for some reason it just doesn't click with me. Can't put
my finger on why.  I guess it's like some folks like country and
western music, some like rock and roll. No reason...different people
like different things.

Re the anti-kit-bike attitude, actually I was hoping for a tough
audience that would give me lots of objections to kit bikes. This
crowd seems to have no trouble telling someone just what they think.
Personally, I prefer that people be up-front like that.  Anyway, if we
can provide a product that can overcome the objections, we ought to be
able to peddle some of 'em.  Easier said than done, but we're aware of
all that.

One of these days we're going to get our web site up, and I'll figure
out a way to pass it around to the folks here for a look-see without
being a spamming asswipe. I might still be an asswipe, but at least
not a *spamming* asswipe. <g> Being a spammer is the best way I know
to get tossed like a frisbee right out of the VB&G, skid across the
highway, bump up against the curb and come to rest in a pile of
cigarette butts.  I hate when that happens.

(Long pause as he stares into the seemingly glazed-over eyes of the
patrons who are obviously about to fall asleep from my ramblings...)

Cripes!  Somebody tell me to shut up!

The crowd immediately yells in unison, "SHUT THE HELL UP!"  And he
does.

Thanks again.

Andy aka Big Stinkie

>
> FWIW there you have my rambling thoughts on kit bikes.
>
> Thanks for the iced cappuccino.
>
> Regards,
> 57panhead
> '57 FLH "Mo"
> http://57panhead.com

57panhead <change_this_to_just_dave@57panhead.com> wrote:

:1. When I would look at the used Harley sites on the web I would not
:even give a second look to anything that said "custom".  So, if I
:wasn't willing to consider buying something that someone else put
:together what chance would I have of ever selling a bike that I built
:when the time came?
:2. When I really started adding things up it was not really much
:cheaper than a fairly new used Harley.

Good points. By the time you finish building the kit, you could
have bought a brand new HD. Nothing ever fits like it is supposed
to.

"SteveT" <rmh2@no48panspam.com> wrote in message
news:o1pr7053dp386ae41thumn638tcl6gnq4d@4ax.com
> 57panhead <change_this_to_just_dave@57panhead.com> wrote:
>
>> 1. When I would look at the used Harley sites on the web I would not
>> even give a second look to anything that said "custom".  So, if I
>> wasn't willing to consider buying something that someone else put
>> together what chance would I have of ever selling a bike that I built
>> when the time came?
>> 2. When I really started adding things up it was not really much
>> cheaper than a fairly new used Harley.
>
> Good points. By the time you finish building the kit, you could
> have bought a brand new HD. Nothing ever fits like it is supposed
> to.

I, sure as shit, do *not* want a "new" Harley.....ever. I want a PanBob like
my old bike. It's rare, if ever, that I see one that is close enough to
inspire me to want to buy it and if it does speak to me it's *never* for
sale. I'd rather have a "neo-pan" than a 46 year old original . The
metallurgy is far superior on the new castings, the state of CNC machining
yeilds better fit and finish. I don't want one of those gaudy assed paint
jobs that will look even more stupid in two years when they're no longer in
vogue. I also don't have the time or inclination to track down all the crap
to put one together and I'm not exactly a walking repository of what parts
interchange where. There were (are?) two quasi "old school" kits out; "Rack
'em Up" and the "Pimp Daddy" kits. Both seemed to be conceptualized with the
best intentions but were horribly off the mark. I'd bet that there's a small
niche market of older guys that would buy a classic like I've described in a
kit.

JD

"JD" <jdb5025nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

:I'd rather have a "neo-pan" than a 46 year old original . The
:metallurgy is far superior on the new castings, the state of CNC machining
:yeilds better fit and finish.

Butt... It ain't got no soul.

http://www.48pan.com/pan

"SteveT" <rmh2@no48panspam.com> wrote in message
news:d10u70dj96r3q2vhkpnvnsgd762bqsmpan@4ax.com
> "JD" <jdb5025nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd rather have a "neo-pan" than a 46 year old original . The
>> metallurgy is far superior on the new castings, the state of CNC
>> machining yeilds better fit and finish.
>
> Butt... It ain't got no soul.
>
> http://www.48pan.com/pan

The pics you refer to are certainly consistent with my idea of what a
motorcycle should be and I have no doubt that your '48 has shitloads of
mojo. The problem comes down to finding these elusive beasts and fine tuning
them into what you really want it to be. Some kid in my neck of the woods
built himself a rigid "neo-pan" and it's getting soul with every mile he
rides it. To me it's a little like my guitars; all the great '56 Strats cost
over $20,000 and you wouldn't take it to a club gig on a bet. My custom shop
is exactly as I wanted it and the more I play it the more mojo it develops.
I can be inspired to ride a helluva lot of mojo into a bike that speaks to
me.

JD

"JD" <jdb5025nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

:To me it's a little like my guitars; all the great '56 Strats cost
:over $20,000 and you wouldn't take it to a club gig on a bet.

That explains it. I play a '68 Les Paul Custom (cherry sunburst
of course).